Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

[not.quite.slash]

Hello Dudes !!!

Im new to the forum, thats my first post ...
I've been on a tone quest since i was 12 years old ( :laugh2: ) ... It ended up pretty son ... But now im having a really hard time on chossing THE amp !!!
Tell me ...

Marshall JCM800 2203 or Marshall 1959 Super Lead ???
What you think about adding an 4th Gain Stage to the 1959 ??? (Putting a 12AX7 as the 4th Pré-Amp Valve ??? ...) ... Does anyone here have did that ??? Does it turns the amp in a junky pile of mud ???

I'm looking for classic tones ... Led Zep, Guns n' Roses, Aerosmith, Deep Purple ... All these use the 1959 !!! I know the from 65 to 69 the best 1959 were made ... Am I Correct ??? When Marshall switched the plexi panel ... for the actual panel ... they also changed the transformer (just that ???) ... Is this correct ???

Thanks !!! Sorry for to many questions !!! :smack:

 

[joelap]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Both amps are relatively similar. There are many options if you get both amps. You could mod both. you could overdrive the front of both. How much money are you willing to spend?

There's a guy on these forums who's ID is The Guy Who Invented Fire... when he see's this thread he will be able to help you out a lot, as he knows a bunch about the differences between any / all marshall amp heads.

theres also a great amp modder on these forums named Jeff Seal who might be able to help you out should you think about getting the amp modded. Jeff is a REALLY nice guy, and he'll help you out a lot.

Sit back and wait until the experts get here

 

[Stevo]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

I'd go for the 1959 with an attenuator. No gain mods!! That will wreck the great natural tone.

I have a 1987x which is the 50w version. I like it more than the 2 JCM800s that I have owned. I also like the musicians that you listed.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Joelap...Thanks for the kind words brother, but Im am no real expert...I just know what I like, and I want to agree with Stevo...get a Plexi (50 or 100 watter is fine...I prefer the 50) and get an attenuator so you can crank it to make it crunch but still be at a reasonable level!

That said, Slash recorded the first GnR record with a 1959 that did have one more strage of gain added as well as a master volume (post phase inverter), all the other guys you mentioned used stock Marshalls. It is also worth mentioning that ALL the old Marshall amps were a little different...they used whatever parts and ransformers were on sale tht day, therefore they are very inconsistant.

I would not tell anybody that they should cut up a real Plexi, if you want to mod one please do us all a fovor...get a reissue. I am not a fan of the JCM 800's in general, but lots of guys do use them and do like them.

To do what you are talking about it really depemds on how much money you want to spend to get it done...voodoo amps builds an amp called a V-Plex it is a 100% dead copy of a 1967 100 watt Plexi head...they sell new, direct for $1800.00 I belive, these amps sound amazing, but I think you would be just as happy with a reissue Marshall...

If you do a search on this forum you will read lots more about THE amp Slash used on the first GnR record and it's mods. But I still want to stress that a stock Plexi with an attenuator will produce some might fine crunch tones...you can also do a search for sound clips of Stevo with his 50 watter...killer tones!

Do some searches on the forum, do some reading and let us know if you have anymore questions. Welcome to the forum.

 

[not.quite.slash]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Thanks All,

Really, i ain't a real fan of the JCM 800 Series... So i decided to go the Plexi way (BTW ... As im a good boy, i won't mod an ORIGINAL Plexi .. ahuahuauh)...

I'm going to search for the Steveo sound files ...
But lets be frank ... Besides the O.T. Theres no big difference from the 65-69 Plexis ...
to the metal-panel ones ??? ...

Read this at Voodoo Amps .. i shows how to convert post plexi circuits ... on true Plexi ones ...

http://www.voodooamps.com/pleximyth.html ... just something i found interesting ...
Later i will be posting some more opnions ...
Stay Up GUYS !!!

THANKS

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Welcome to the forums.....Don't mod your 1959 Marshall,instead get some good filter caps in it,do some small tweaks to the tone stack,and possibly V2's Cathode...After that,get yourself either a Mass Or THD Hot Plate and some great pedals and rock with authority! Added gain stages = lots of added noise...(BAD)

I currently own a 50 watt 1987 Marshall and I owned a 50 watt 800...They don't sound the same...The non-master volume head is warmer and it gives you the early classic rock tones...The 800 has a different distortion character and gives you the 80's tones....I much prefer the non-master volume Marshalls for my styles...A great pedal in front of one of these amps,is the stuff.... :dance:

John

 

[not.quite.slash]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Thx guys !!! 1959 SUPER LEAD 4 EVER !!! ...
OK ...

Money is something that i can get ... lets say ... with some easy ... (i have my methods ...)...

What do you guys recommend ???
1- Voodoo V-Plex 68' Plexi Copy (100%) HAND-WIRED
2- Marshall 1959SLP Reissue - PCB
3- 65'-69' Plexi at E-Bay (Plexi-Panel and Original O.T.) HAND-WIRED

4- 69-73 Plexi at E-Bay (Metal-Panel) ! HAND-WIRED
5- Pos-73 Plexi at E-Bay (Metal-Panel) PCB

Maybe getting the 4th option, changing the O.T. for the original one, and doing the modifications writen here -> http://www.voodooamps.com/pleximyth.html <- its a good way to save money ...

BTW ... Does the PCB lack tone (or something else) ... compared to the Hand-Wireds/Point-To-Point Ones ???

Also the Voodoo ones sound pretty damm good, although i have never played in the original plexi ... It seems to be a ****ing damm perfect copy !

Loking further at Harmony-Central ... people seem to complain a lot about the Reissue ...

So Whats Up Dudes ... Tell me What you think !!
Bye ! Thanks

 

[not.quite.slash]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Thx guys !!! 1959 SUPER LEAD 4 EVER !!! ...
OK ...

Money is something that i can get ... lets say ... with some easy ... (i have my methods ...)...

What do you guys recommend ???
1- Voodoo V-Plex 68' Plexi Copy (100%) HAND-WIRED
2- Marshall 1959SLP Reissue - PCB
3- 65'-69' Plexi at E-Bay (Plexi-Panel and Original O.T.) HAND-WIRED

4- 69-73 Plexi at E-Bay (Metal-Panel) ! HAND-WIRED
5- Pos-73 Plexi at E-Bay (Metal-Panel) PCB

Maybe getting the 4th option, changing the O.T. for the original one, and doing the modifications writen here -> http://www.voodooamps.com/pleximyth.html <- its a good way to save money ...

BTW ... Does the PCB lack tone (or something else) ... compared to the Hand-Wireds/Point-To-Point Ones ???

Also the Voodoo ones sound pretty damm good, although i have never played in the original plexi ... It seems to be a ****ing damm perfect copy ! http://www.voodooamps.com/vplex.html

Loking further at Harmony-Central ... people seem to complain a lot about the Reissue ...

So Whats Up Dudes ... Tell me What you think !!
Bye ! Thanks

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Thx guys !!! 1959 SUPER LEAD 4 EVER !!! ...
OK ...

Money is something that i can get ... lets say ... with some easy ... (i have my methods ...)...

What do you guys recommend ???
1- Voodoo V-Plex 68' Plexi Copy (100%) HAND-WIRED
2- Marshall 1959SLP Reissue - PCB
3- 65'-69' Plexi at E-Bay (Plexi-Panel and Original O.T.) HAND-WIRED

4- 69-73 Plexi at E-Bay (Metal-Panel) ! HAND-WIRED
5- Pos-73 Plexi at E-Bay (Metal-Panel) PCB

Maybe getting the 4th option, changing the O.T. for the original one, and doing the modifications writen here -> http://www.voodooamps.com/pleximyth.html <- its a good way to save money ...

BTW ... Does the PCB lack tone (or something else) ... compared to the Hand-Wireds/Point-To-Point Ones ???

Also the Voodoo ones sound pretty damm good, although i have never played in the original plexi ... It seems to be a ****ing damm perfect copy ! http://www.voodooamps.com/vplex.html

Loking further at Harmony-Central ... people seem to complain a lot about the Reissue ...

So Whats Up Dudes ... Tell me What you think !!
Bye ! Thanks

There is no difference in tone between the pcb and hand wired versions of the same metal faced amps...Trace Allen and myself have both done A/Bs on the 2 versions in question....The handwired version is a complete pleasure to work on,but if the components are the same,transformers etc...you are not going to hear a difference regardless of what other people tell you!

Trace knows his stuff and I'd love one of his "Plexi" amps...A 69 1959 is cool,but it's going to cost you stupid money...Trace is already using the best transformers and components that money can buy....Next up would be a metal paneled 1959 amp from the early 70s...This is what I own and it's a great amp...Actually I own the 1987 model(A 73 PCB version)....

On a side note....Trace Allen is one of the nicest and most caring guys I've ever met...The guy cares every bit about your tone as if it were his own amp..His reputation is based upon those values...Trace is also someone that I'm glad to be a friend of...Plus I own one of Trace's older 50 watt Marshall heads and that's gotta mean something.... :dance:

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

i think that the tone diff between PCB and handwired is the PLACEBO effect in action.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

if those are you options, I would get a V-Plex from VooDoo...good stuff, and very well built. Plus Trace is a hell of a guyand dealing with VooDoo is always a pleasure!

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

+1 for Voodoo here, Trace is defently good people

 

[not.quite.slash]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

OK, Thanks ...

So altough there's no difference between the PCB and PTP... There's still the difference from the Old "Plexis" to the Metal-Panel ones... I'm thinkin hard on it, maybe i'll buy a 69'-73' Metal Panel PTP 1959... and right after i get it... Do the changes in the circuit so the amp would fit the plexi specs... differing just on the Front/Rear panels ... What do you guys think about it ??? ... Anyone wonder the price of a 69'-73' Metal Panel PTP 1959 (ORIGINAL ... i mean ... no mods, no tweakes, no extra capcitors hhehe) ???

Is the 1959SLP Reissue as near as good as the old ones ??? I've seen some people complaining about the tone in the Harmony-Central ...
I also think that the Voodoo V-Plex is incridible sounding (.. i agree with stratdeluxer59 ... Trace rocks !) ...

Please post your opnions guys ...
Thanks ! not.quite.slash (i just miss that ****ing curly hair ...)

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

OK, Thanks ...

So altough there's no difference between the PCB and PTP... There's still the difference from the Old "Plexis" to the Metal-Panel ones... I'm thinkin hard on it, maybe i'll buy a 69'-73' Metal Panel PTP 1959... and right after i get it... Do the changes in the circuit so the amp would fit the plexi specs... differing just on the Front/Rear panels ... What do you guys think about it ??? ... Anyone wonder the price of a 69'-73' Metal Panel PTP 1959 (ORIGINAL ... i mean ... no mods, no tweakes, no extra capcitors hhehe) ???

Is the 1959SLP Reissue as near as good as the old ones ??? I've seen some people complaining about the tone in the Harmony-Central ...
I also think that the Voodoo V-Plex is incridible sounding (.. i agree with stratdeluxer59 ... Trace rocks !) ...

Please post your opnions guys ...
Thanks ! not.quite.slash (i just miss that ****ing curly hair ...)

I will not get into PTP vs PCB...I belive that there is a difference, it is a very small difference but it is there. Also keep in mind...ALL the old Plexi amps are so inconsistant...you could have 2 from day and they might sound completely different. As for the reissues, they are good amps. Trace will tell you that ALl the reissues need new transformers, and I do not agree with that at all. If you want a killer amp, get a reissue Marshall, if you want an amazing piece of gear that somebody put a lot of hard work into, get a V-Plex...either way I think you will be happy with it.

 

[joelap]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

If you have the cash to afford it, go with Trace. Trace genuinely cares what his customers think. Marshall sells so many amps, you're just another number. Although I've never been fortunate enough to meet or speak with Trace, his reputation is one of the best I've heard of.

 

[mrid]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

I had a Roccaforte-modded 1959SLP that was a killer amp.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

I belive that there is a difference

Hehe so it is a matter of faith in the righteous amp then

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

I will not get into PTP vs PCB...I belive that there is a difference, it is a very small difference but it is there. Also keep in mind...ALL the old Plexi amps are so inconsistant...you could have 2 from day and they might sound completely different. As for the reissues, they are good amps. Trace will tell you that ALl the reissues need new transformers, and I do not agree with that at all. If you want a killer amp, get a reissue Marshall, if you want an amazing piece of gear that somebody put a lot of hard work into, get a V-Plex...either way I think you will be happy with it.

Ask Trace if he hears a difference between pcb and ptp....Guess what he'll tell you? I Know because we both did the same tests....No difference...It's physchological tone difference...Trust me on this one! :wink:

Another important factor with old Marshalls was the difference in the voltages from the transformers....These voltages changed on a regular basis while marshall continued to tweak their amps to satisfy the players...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

I agree with what most everyone ha said. I've owned both models and my '70 50 watt small box Marshall (model 1987) just sounds more natural. I loved the '82 JCM 800 50 watt I owned, but I sold it when I got the model 1987 head. Lew

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Ask Trace if he hears a difference between pcb and ptp....Guess what he'll tell you? I Know because we both did the same tests....No difference...It's physchological tone difference...Trust me on this one! :wink:

Another important factor with old Marshalls was the difference in the voltages from the transformers....These voltages changed on a regular basis while marshall continued to tweak their amps to satisfy the players...

I'll give you this John...the AB testing I did was not as tight as it could have been, and the differerce I heard might have simply been different components...

And to be 100% honest my biggest beef with PCB amps is that they are a pain to work on, and I have seen one too many broken PCB's.