Tone search revisited.

Dr.Mavashi

neonderthalotonalogist
So for the last three years as a regular here I've asked a million of questions all in search of my modern, euro-power metal tone that was supposed to be rooted in great tones of 80s and the 70s. But life is funny, and now i am in a band that is very retro in some ways. The jury is going to be out for a while if we are gonna succeed but the goal to sculp a sound that incorporates the best of late 70s hard rock and early 80s metal. Its a dual guitar gig. What we are trying to blend is elments of Thin Lizzy, Uriah Heep, Sabbath, Rainbow/Purple, ZZ top, Skynard, early 80s Priest, early Motely Crue, Lynch Mob, Quite Riot, 70s Scorpions, Backfoot, Ram Jam, Accept, I know it sounds like ill fated venture, but you know what, we are having a blast trying. So, my laney AOR is doing great adopting to the project, but once again my G12T-75s are sub par and as I much as I love my Spina TS9 and for a great deal of material it does brilliantly, it does not cover the entire territory. So what would you recommend as far as stompers for the dirty tones and speakers. I am planning to get Beano boost, and I am thinking of G12-30Hs for my JCM900 4X12, any comments?
 
Re: Tone search revisited.

Greenbacks in the 4x12...roll back the gain to Zero on the JCM 900, keep the preamp gain at full...MV to flavour, and throw either a Boss Super OD or a TS9 infront of that thing.


oh, and either a Super Disto or a Duncan Disto equipped guitar.
 
Re: Tone search revisited.

I'm tellin' ya, as soon as you get those G12T-75s out your cab you'll never look back.

You may recall my recent former frustrations with my Laney AOR series II...well that was back in the day when I was using G12T-75s in my Marshall quad and a Mesa Black Shadow MC-90 (based on the Classic Lead 80s) in my 1x12 open back. Even with a pair of Vintage 30s along with the G12T-75s in the quad, you could still hear the 75s harsh top-end.

Once I replaced then pair of G12T-75s with G12H-30s it made a huge improvement. Matches perfectly with the Vintage 30s. Has a vintage/modern vibe going on. I'm longer resenting my Laney. Those 75s just rob it of mids. I can't imagine those sharp highs being useful for the music you want to play it with.

I recently also replaced the pair Vintage 30s with Greenbacks from the 70's. It has an even more old-school vibe going on but I'm not sure if I'm warming up to how well the greenies handles distortion. Tend to mush out a lot easier under gain however the cleans are awesome. I think I might put the V30s back in.

While the Greenies are residing in one half of the quad with the G12H-30s, I've put one of the V30s in my 1x12 open back cab, and ****....I'm really suprised at how nice it sounds. I've tried the G12H-30s and Greenies in that cab also with great success but I couldn't use them without much volume or else I'd damage them with the Laney 50-watt power rating. I'm now loving that 1x12 cab. With the Black Shadow MC-90 it was way too stiff and hi-fi. Didn't give me anything to work with. The Laney seems to jive much better with coloured sounding speakers with great mids. I'm still curious as to how some old G12-65s would work. Gonna hunt down a pair of them one day, then maybe my speaker gas will be cured haha! Before I started messing with speaker changes I quite ignorant to how much of a difference it made. It's equally as important as pickup or tube swapping.

I'm still having problems with excessive brightness from the Laney (have to keep the treble and mids around 1) but hopefully that will be solved after having the bright caps removed. I've also got some KT-77s waiting to be installed. Got some NOS GE JAN 12AT7s in V1, V3, V4 and a Tung Sol in V2, really cleaned up the signal. I haven't got into using pedals with amp yet but soon I'm going to be investing a few drive pedals and see what works well, can't give you any recommendations there yet.

Arn't you using an Invader in your Strat? I can imagine that working well for modern stuff but for the styles you described it seems way too much. I'd be going for a more "PAF" styled medium output pickup. I've never used one before but a Custom-Custom would seem like it would really bring out the roaring mids in a Laney AOR whilst keeping the top-end smooth and bottem end tight.
 
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Re: Tone search revisited.

Hames,
Yeah, I do have an invader in the bridge of my strat, and I roll it back a bit to about 7/6 and it works quite nice not entirely there but for the most part I am happy with it, I will still switch to fullshred for a try. I bought my AOR with non-stock cap values and its the 6 knobber so its not bright at all, its just perfect to my ears, plus I push it with John Spina's TS9. So you really liked the G12H-30s ? But you are not cranking the amp too much because you are worried about the 30 watts rating vs. AOR's 50? I thought that in 4X12 its 120(30X4) watts vs 50, therefore no threat, no? I am thinking of KT77 too, now I have JJs E34Ls.
 
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Re: Tone search revisited.

So you really liked the G12H-30s ? But you are not cranking the amp too much because you are worried about the 30 watts rating vs. AOR's 50? I thought that in 4X12 its 120(30X4) watts vs 50, therefore no threat, no?

Nah that was in relation to using them with my 1x12. Using one 25 watt or 30 watt driver in a single speaker enclosure is a recipe for damage with a 50 watt amp. I've got no fears with using those speakers in my quad. I was just experimenting to see what they're like in a 1x12 open back. They sounded excellent but it's not a safe option. I was expecting the Vintage 30 to sound mediocre in that cab but it sounds great.
 
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Re: Tone search revisited.

Both the G12H-30 and Vintage 30 have a similar frequency response sporting a smooth top-end, pronounced mids, and a strong but tight lower-end. The 30's are a bit more peaky in the mids and G12H-30 have slightly more bass.

The major difference being is that the V30 is more aggressive and the G12H-30 is more mellow and sweet. V30s sound more compressed and G12H-30 are bit more open. They compliment each other well and seem to handle most styles across the board. Under heavy gain, V30s are more clear but it you really want to ROCK in a more traditional sense, the G12H-30 is THE voice of rock n' roll! Taking it one step further, Greenbacks will give off more edgy/dirty character.

Using the low sensitivity input with the AOR to get a clean sound, the G12H-30 and Greenies win for me as with their openess and brillant top-end. That's not to say the V30s are no good, maybe just slightly stiff/dull.

On the high-input using the normal channel, it's classic rock all the way with the G12H-30s and Greenies. Chords ring with complexity. V30s sound more sustained, focused and compress a lot easier for lead work.

The AOR channel will favour the V30s for the most extreme settings. Again they stay more clear, focused and sustained. G12H-30s and Greenies will fuzz out easier, which could be more favourable for a stoner rock/doom metal type of sound. Greenies are the biggest culprit for this. In any instance, the pre-gain knob on the normal knob channel whilst using the AOR channel in high gain should be kept at a minimum to avoid fuzzing out too much.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record but you'll get the most versatility with a V30/G12H-30 combination. I've haven't used each of them enough though to really favour either one. If you get a pair of G12H-30s and stick in an x-pattern with your 75s you may love them or hate the fact you can still hear them. They won't "cancel out" what you don't like about the 75s. If you want to do away completely with modern tones and remain strictly in the old-school realm then I would go with all G12H-30s. Go with Greenbacks if you want maximum speaker colouration.

FYI, I'm not actually using real celestion Vintage 30s. I've got a pair of those cheaper WGS Warehouse Vintage 30 clones. To my ears, they sound very much like the real deal for only a fraction of the cost. http://warehousespeakers.com/proddetail.php?prod=veteran30_12

Some people say that the WGS Veteran 30 is like an improved version of the Vintage 30. I've had limited real world experience with real Celestion V30s but I will say that my WGS V30s didn't sound as anywhere near as peaky in the mids as I expected them to be.
 
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Re: Tone search revisited.

Thank dude, I think I am gonna settle for your recomendation of G12H30/V30
 
Re: Tone search revisited.

Wow, resurrection!

I'm still wondering about G12-65s and how they would sound with an AOR. Those Warehouse clones look tempting.
 
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