"Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

midnite_man

midnite_man

New member
I'm preparing to install my newly acquired set of Texas Hot Antiquity single coils in the neck and middle positions with a Antiq. Custom Bridge in my American Strat, and am going to perform the treble-bleed mod with my circuit going from the switch hot into the volume pot and out to the output jack, with the 100k resistor and .002mf cap in between. Since I'm also going to replace the bottom tone-pot with a Fralin blender pot for the neck and bridge pups, I will have only one tone-pot for all three pickups. According to the blender pot schematic from the Fralin website I won't be soldering in any caps between the blender and the 5-way switch, so there'll be no further impedence in that respect.

Does anyone who has done this have a preference as to what capacitor rating to use for the tone-pot that would be best suited for these pickups? I ordered and received an assortment of V/S Orange Drop caps from Mouser a few weeks ago in ratings of .002pf, .01pf, .015pf, and .02pf. I'm leaning towards the .015pf cap thinking it might be a good all-around cap to use for tone, but am wondering by going that route if it would take away too much high-end from the pickups while used in conjunction with the cap and resistor treble-bleed mod's .002 cap and 100k resistor circuit? Would it possibly be better to go with a .01pf tone cap? Does the treble-bleed mod affect the tone much?
I wish to avoid too much experimentation with caps due to the fact, as we all know, it can be a hassle when having to pull the pickguard off the guitar every time a tweak has to be made to the electronics. I'd like to get it right the first time if possible.

Thanks for any help guys!

-Bob
 
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Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

midnite_man said:
I'm preparing to install my newly acquired set of Texas Hot Antiquity single coils in the neck and middle positions with a Antiq. Custom Bridge in my American Strat, and am going to perform the treble-bleed mod with my circuit going from the switch hot into the volume pot and out to the output jack, with the 100k resistor and .002mf cap in between. Since I'm also going to replace the bottom tone-pot with a Fralin blender pot for the neck and bridge pups, I will have only one tone-pot for all three pickups. According to the blender pot schematic from the Fralin website I won't be soldering in any caps between the blender and the 5-way switch, so there'll be no further impedence in that respect.

Does anyone who has done this have a preference as to what capacitor rating to use for the tone-pot that would be best suited for these pickups? I ordered and received an assortment of V/S Orange Drop caps from Mouser a few weeks ago in ratings of .002pf, .01pf, .015pf, and .02pf. I'm leaning towards the .015pf cap thinking it might be a good all-around cap to use for tone, but am wondering by going that route if it would take away too much high-end from the pickups while used in conjunction with the cap and resistor treble-bleed mod's .002 cap and 100k resistor circuit? Would it possibly be better to go with a .01pf tone cap? Does the treble-bleed mod affect the tone much?
I wish to avoid too much experimentation with caps due to the fact, as we all know, it can be a hassle when having to pull the pickguard off the guitar every time a tweak has to be made to the electronics. I'd like to get it right the first time if possible.

Thanks for any help guys!

-Bob
Click to expand...

Hello Bob...I don't use the fralin blender pot so Lew can help you there...Use the .022 value because it's a common value and pretty much sits in the middle of your values..Remember that the treble bleed mod goes on the middle and 1 outside lug(opposite of ground)onto your volume pot...I'm not at all familiar with the Fralin mod as I always pretty much choose to wire my strats stock with the exception of the jumper wire across the switch so I can have bridge tone and the treble bleed mod...

John
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

Sorry, but I gotta bump this one up as I'm set to swap out pups and get this Strat of mine whupped into shape.
If anyone has done the mentioned mods, I'd appreciate some input.
Thanks,
Bob
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

Hi Bob -

FWIW I tried a .002 cap in a treble bleed circuit with single coils (SSL & APS) and thought it retained too much of the treble, getting pretty thin when the volume was turned down a fair amount. I'm using a .001 cap with a 100k resistor and it's fairly transparent for my rig. I hear you about not wanting to experiment too much, but this mod depends on personal taste - I like to have a little bit of the highs drop off as I roll the volume down.

I wouldn't worry about the tone cap's interaction with the treble bleed too much. .022 works fine for me.

Chip
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

Here's the treble bleed cap and resistor that Lindy swears by: http://www.fralinpickups.com/schm-general.htm

The resistor is part of the R/C (resistor/capacitor) network and shouldn't be left out.

HOWEVER: instead of the R/C (or treble bleed) network, you might try the 50's mod. Since you're using a master tone control, you can connect it to the same terminal of the volume pot that the pickups are connected to, the outside terminal of the volume pot...OR: connect the tone control to same terminal the output jack is connected to: the middle terminal.

If you connect the tone control to the middle terminal, you'll have the "50's mod" in place. That's how my Strats and Teles are wired and it does help retain highs when the volume pot is turned down WITHOUT requiring a bleed cap across the volume control.

Try both ways and see which tone you prefer.

Lew
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

Lewguitar said:
Here's the treble bleed cap and resistor that Lindy swears by: http://www.fralinpickups.com/schm-general.htm

The resistor is part of the R/C (resistor/capacitor) network and shouldn't be left out.

HOWEVER: instead of the R/C (or treble bleed) network, you might try the 50's mod. Since you're using a master tone control, you can connect it to the same terminal of the volume pot that the pickups are connected to, the outside terminal of the volume pot...OR: connect the tone control to same terminal the output jack is connected to: the middle terminal.

If you connect the tone control to the middle terminal, you'll have the "50's mod" in place. That's how my Strats and Teles are wired and it does help retain highs when the volume pot is turned down WITHOUT requiring a bleed cap across the volume control.

Try both ways and see which tone you prefer.

Lew
Click to expand...


Thanks to Lew, Chip, and John as well for your responses . Between what you all posted here and studying the schematics a little more, I think I'm ready to dig into this project.
I'll get some results posted as soon as I can.
thanks again, Guys!!

-Bob
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

I'd love to comment, but I've got limited strat mod experience. I really have gotten to where I don't care for the treble volume cap mods. I like to play with the tone a bit by turning down the volume a bit. Maybe it's just me.
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

well, I'm with STRATDELUXER, I just use stock wiring with the bridge tone jumper, and that works fine for me, but I'm curious to know how others like the mods

I might like to try the blender pot sometime, but I admit to being a little Old School about this stuff! :)
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

Curly said:
well, I'm with STRATDELUXER, I just use stock wiring with the bridge tone jumper, and that works fine for me, but I'm curious to know how others like the mods

I might like to try the blender pot sometime, but I admit to being a little Old School about this stuff! :)
Click to expand...

I'm old school, too, but I've had love/hate relationships for a long time with my other Strat bridge pickups I've tried in it and think by going with the tone-blender pot in my newest Strat I'll probably be able to find a happy medium in there somewhere. Hey, it's worth a try anyways!
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

Scott_F said:
I'd love to comment, but I've got limited strat mod experience. I really have gotten to where I don't care for the treble volume cap mods. I like to play with the tone a bit by turning down the volume a bit. Maybe it's just me.
Click to expand...

So Scott, what you're saying is that you do use the tone-blender mod, but not the treble-bleed mod. Okay. I know you use the tone-blender due to explaining it to me in a previous thread, so I was wondering if you might've had a little more insight you could share in regards to how that mod would react to the treble-bleed set-up if you used that, too.
However, I think I received the info I was needing through those who also responded. So I think I'm set. I'll use the .022pf cap for the tone-pot, and a .002 cap for the treble-bleed and see how that works.
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

What you guys are calling "pf" is actually "uf" as in ".022uf" which is actually 22000pf (also known as a 223). The one I use for a treble bleed is a 330pf (also known as .00033 or 331). This is smaller than a .001 (10000pf) Give it a try or go with a 220pf (221) cap. It's subtle but works without sounding like it's there.

Ouch, that hurt my brain. Peace ;)
 
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Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

frankencat said:
What you guys are calling "pf" is actually "uf" as in ".022uf" which is actually 22000pf (also known as a 223). The one I use for a treble bleed is a 330pf (also known as .00033 or 331). This is smaller than a .001 (10000pf) Give it a try or go with a 220pf (221) cap. It's subtle but works without sounding like it's there.

Ouch, that hurt my brain. Peace ;)
Click to expand...

Just checked my invoice from Mouser, and you're right. I shoulda wrote "uf" instead.
I'm a baaaaaad boy..... :wall:
Thanks for clearing that up!
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

MattPete said:
I A/B'ed Kinman's serial capacitor/resistor mod last week against the standard cap only and against no bypass. I really like the mod, and I think that it is much more useful than only using a capacitor.

http://www.kinman.com/html/toneWorkshop/perfectGuitar.htm#volumePots

This was with a 500k volume pot and a 59 in the bridge of a swampash strat.
Click to expand...

That Kinman mod is really close to what I ended up liking the most.

With the resistor & capacitor in parallel like Lindy's mod, I think it smooths out the taper of the pot some as well as maintaining the treble. Not a bad thing - just need to know it's there.

Chip
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

MattPete said:
I A/B'ed Kinman's serial capacitor/resistor mod last week against the standard cap only and against no bypass. I really like the mod, and I think that it is much more useful than only using a capacitor.

http://www.kinman.com/html/toneWorkshop/perfectGuitar.htm#volumePots

This was with a 500k volume pot and a 59 in the bridge of a swampash strat.
Click to expand...

Kinman, Lindy Seymour: they're all "right" because it all comes down to personal preference. Seymour uses a 100K resistor with the cap...Lindy uses a 200K resistor with the same cap. The 200K value give a slightly brighter tone when the volume control is reduced. Experiment and find out what you like best...because it's all personal choice. Lew
 
Re: "Treble-Bleed Mod" in a Strat: Scott, John S., Lew?

I used the high pass (treble bleed sounds like your taking the treble to ground but thats what everyone calls it...I call it a high pass) for 27 years. When I heard about the 50s volume mod and tried it I quit using the high pass. 50s mod gave me a functional tone control too. Lew has a link to a nice diagram but all you have to do is connect the tone control to the output of the volume control instead of the input...thats right just move the one tone control lead and...I used the high pass for 27 years and the 50s mod is now my personal choice.
 
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