Tube heads explained?

MadaxeMatt

New member
Hey guys, first off love this forum tons of good stuff. I was hoping someone might be able to clear this up for me.

Whats the difference between a traynor head with 4 12ax7s 5150 or 6505 with say 5 12ax7s and a bugera with 6 of em im talking pre-amp and lets assume for a minute they all have identical power tubes

Now i know theyre tons of different so called 12ax7s out there but my questions is there a difference between these heads if they all use the same tubes is 4 tubes really gonna have less gain then 5 and can 6 realllly be that much better than 5 somehow i doubt it but im curious and dont wanna be mis informed thank you lol
 
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Re: Tube heads explained?

I meant to add, if your head has the exact same tube specs as another will those sound basically the same regardless of brand.
 
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Re: Tube heads explained?

Well the number of preamps amp tubes affect how many gain stages an amp can have and how drastic the tone shaping can be from what I know,
Also the capacitors, transformer and bias effect the tone a lot.
Sure there’s people who know way better than me so I encourage those to correct any mistakes here.
 
Re: Tube heads explained?

Amps have significantly differing stages and basic tonality. The way the eq works within the amp also has an effect too. Whilst more preamp tubes generally mean more drive, its not always the case between brands.
 
Re: Tube heads explained?

Also, in many cases the Fx loop and onboard reverb may be tube driven. So an amp with 5 12ax7’s May only really be using 3 of them in the gain staging.
 
Re: Tube heads explained?

All of the above. It depends on how many bits on the preamp use valves - are they just for preamp gain? Or also for EQ, reverb, effects loop?
 
Re: Tube heads explained?

Each 12AX7, 12AT, 12Au... type tube is actually two miniature tubes in one bottle. There are triodes A and B in each bottle. How these are used and arranged can yield many different combinations and circuit designs.

For example, a Black Face Fender is a very different design from a Tweed Fender even if they use the same number of tubes. On a BF Bassmann the normal and treble channels will each have there own 12AX7. The signal path will be triode A>>tone stack (eq section)>>Triode B for each channel. Then the channels are mixed and on to the Phase Inverter.

The Phase inverter splits the signal so that the top half of the wave form goes to one (or a pair) of power tubes and the bottom 1/2 goes to the other power tube (or pair). Triode A handles 1/2 and triode B the other. The phase inverter is actually part of the power amp.

On a Tweed Bassman it's different. Triode A of the first (12AY7) handles one channel and triode B handles the other. The channels are then mixed and the signal goes to the 2nd tube which is a 12AX7. Triode A of V2 is a voltage amplifier and triode B drives the tone stack. The feed for the tone stack is taken from the cathode of triode B. Then it's on to the phase inverter.

Marshall plexis use the same topology as the Tweed Bassman. 2203/2204 amps often called JCM800s modified this arrangement slightly so that triode A cascades into triode B at the first tube and there is a master volume installed between the tone stack and the phase inverter.

The Soldano SLO took the 2203 topology and added another 12AX7 tube for two additional gain stages. Yet another 12AX7 may be used on a Soldano for driving an FX loop. Mesa Rectifiers, and 5150s are essentially copies of the Soldano.

A Mesa Boogie MK series is based on the topology of the Black Face instead of the Tweed Bassman, but instead of mixing the two channels, they cascaded one channel into the other in series, and placed a master volume in front of the phase inverter.

The original, not the modern, Orange preamps are very different from either the Tweed/Marshall or the Black Face topologies.

A Hiwatt circuit is similar to the Tweed/Marshall topology, but with and extra tube, not used to create high gain. In the case of the Hiwatt it has four inputs but the treble and normal channels are each more like a 2203 than a plexi. Hence the extra tube. The feed for the tone stack is taken from the plate of the final triode in the preamp instead of from the cathode on a Hiwatt.
 
Re: Tube heads explained?

The sound depends on so many circuit factors.
The tubes can be configured so many ways. For instance a three channel amp could maybe have two tubes for each channel but for instance it could be that each channel has its own two preamp tubes or it could be every channel uses the first tube to make the basic time then each channel adds sections of tubes and some might have other functions like reverb drivers, tone stack buffers or recovery, fx loop send/return, phase inverter etc.
In short generally if there's more tubes you can pretty much assume nothing unless you know what each tube is there for
 
Re: Tube heads explained?

Ok thanks that helps alot circuit diagrams seem to be the way to go. So basically you never really know what those tubes functions are untill you see the diagram
 
Re: Tube heads explained?

Ok thanks that helps alot circuit diagrams seem to be the way to go. So basically you never really know what those tubes functions are untill you see the diagram

You don't necessarily need a diagram; many manufacturers include a tube chart in the owner's manual that will explain what the various tubes are for. As examples, these are the tube charts for the Egnater Tweaker 15 and Jet City JCA-22H: (assume both halves of the tube unless noted). I've also omitted the power tubes since you didn't ask about those.

Egnater:
V1: Gain stages
V2: Effects loop driver
V3: Phase inverter

Jet City:
V1A: Gain for Crunch & Lead channels
V1B: Gain for Crunch channel
V2: Gain for Lead channel
V3A: Gain for Crunch & Lead channels
V3B: Cathode Follower
V4: Effects loop driver
V5: Phase Inverter
 
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