Tube Pre-Amps?

HetfieldRules

HetfieldRules

New member
Okay, so i recently invested in a very modest "Studio" ...Shure SM57's, Beta 52, PG-81 condensors, Rode NT-1A. Running into a PreSonus FireStudio Project(8 channel audio interface with firewire output) directly into my iMac with logic express.

now after recording and eq's i get some pretty good sounding recording...considering the minimal cost....but the drums dont seem to pop. i mean like a true pop to them, i can EQ them and make them sound pretty good and legit....they just are missing the "umph". So i have been reading that Recording Channels and Tube Preamps really help bring out the sound of recoding but most of them are only 1 or 2 channels. I found a Recording Channel that is a Tube Preamp/Compressor/3-band EQ and it has an effects loop on it. if i were to send the effects loop through my Audio interface which also has an effects loop, would i get the tube preamp the work through all 8 inputs for recording drums or will it just send the compressor and EQ? Is a tube preamp really what i am looking for to get the drums to pop or am i barking up the wrong tree?

Sorry for the wordy post :/ hope you guys have some insight
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

Tubes generally make things sound warmer and add compression, they don't add pop so much. You're going to get alot initial transients (pop) by using compressors and EQ, as well I think alot of it has to do with the mic's. Condensors capture transients better. Shure's sound is more boomy compared the Audix sound. I prefer an i5 over a 57 because it has more pop and I prefer the response the i5 has. With the right preamp and stuff the 57's also sound good, but keep in mind a good tube pre is going to set you back roughly $1400 or more.

What model / brand is this tube preamp you found?
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

HetfieldRules said:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-Eureka-1-Channel-PreampCompressorEQ?sku=500414 it's a presonus but going by the price i'd say it prbly isn't very good ...i know a friend who uses the Presonus Eureka through an audio interface but uses Sennheiser e604's and the drums really pop...i cant tell if it's the Eureka or the mics that make the difference...
Click to expand...

Probably both... I have an old Presonus BlueTube and it is the biggest POS! Not because it's an older model, but because the design is not really supplying enough voltage to the tube. I'm not even sure if it's in the actual amplification circuit...never bothered to track down a schematic.
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

One trick I learned a long time ago with drums (from a studio engineer for MCA/Geffen at the time), was to use a compressor on the drum submix. Get all the drum tracks down to a stereo sub and dedicate a compressor to that. Doing that makes a *huge* difference in the way the drums surface without overpowering making it very easy to place everything else in the mix. IMHO, you can have a great mix of everything else, but if the drums are weak or buried, the whole mix loses energy and sounds like ****.

I doubt tube preamps are going to get you very far in that quest - I wouldn't bother with it...
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

I just did a lot of research on the ART Digital MPA and MPA Gold and find that a lot of studio guys LOVE them. They said the trick was to replace the stock tubes with something else. I found one on ebay with gold tipped JJ's and the sound is amazing! Go to www.gearslutz.com and search on it. Big hit!
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

The gearslutz forum is a great resource.
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

Thanks guys....def seems like i was barking up the wrong tree with the tube pre-amp and that i am actually more seeking compression. now will i be able to use a compressor and send it through an effects look to compress all 8 tracks? or will i have to look into multiple compressors? or am i better off investing in sennheiser mics verses the Shure's that i have....it seems like Shure's are the standard for live situations but the Sennheisers seem to be better for studio work.
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

I was going to say use compression as well.

HetfieldRules said:
Thanks guys....def seems like i was barking up the wrong tree with the tube pre-amp and that i am actually more seeking compression. now will i be able to use a compressor and send it through an effects look to compress all 8 tracks? or will i have to look into multiple compressors? or am i better off investing in sennheiser mics verses the Shure's that i have....it seems like Shure's are the standard for live situations but the Sennheisers seem to be better for studio work.
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Does the mixing console you are using for the drums have effects send and an effects control for each channel?
If so, that's how you should go. Or you could get a multi channel compressor and use it for each mic (if you need different adjustments for each mic).

Or, you could just try compressing the tracks with your recording software's built in effects.
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

I am using logic's built in compression, but it sounds like i might need something better. the interface i am using only has a single send and return then it just has individual 1/4'' outs for each channel
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

HetfieldRules said:
I am using logic's built in compression, but it sounds like i might need something better. the interface i am using only has a single send and return then it just has individual 1/4'' outs for each channel
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with Logic (I use Sonar) but as long as you can submix all the individual recorded drum tracks submixed down to two subs (or one stereo sub) separate from the rest of the mix within the software, you can apply the software compression to those subs (or single stereo sub) only. There are various 3rd party plugins that can probably do a better job at compression than the built in ones, but at least you have something to work with...

Nice mic's are great to have if you have money burning a hole in your pocket, but there is no doubt you can get some great sounds from the old standard 57's 58's and other low-mid range mics. Save your money.
 
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Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

i have applied compression on each individual drum track as well as the stereo output of the entire mix. it really made them sound a lot better....but i feel like the drums are still dull....granted this is my first time recording drums and i suppose i cannot expect too much from a setup the cost me about 1500 for everything excluding the computer. Just looking for somethings to really take the sound to the next level....perhaps experience is what will bring a more fine tuned sound...
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

HetfieldRules said:
i have applied compression on each individual drum track as well as the stereo output of the entire mix. it really made them sound a lot better....but i feel like the drums are still dull....granted this is my first time recording drums and i suppose i cannot expect too much from a setup the cost me about 1500 for everything excluding the computer. Just looking for somethings to really take the sound to the next level....perhaps experience is what will bring a more fine tuned sound...
Click to expand...

Yup - micing drums is a trick to begin with - keep on pluggin away at it
 
Re: Tube Pre-Amps?

Here's how we used to do it before my buddy finally built an actual studio:

1. Took the big cushions off a three cushion couch and formed a cone with them on the front of the kick (one on each side, one on the top). Placed the mic at the tip of the cone. ( O >x )

2. Using twin bed sized mattresses, walled off the front of the toms. We also took the bottom heads off them. Placed mics a little bit below the toms on each side of the kick, on the tom side of the wall.

3. Used overhead mics on each side for cymbals.

4. Placed a mic under snare and one just above hi-hat.

5. All the mics were 57's and we compressed the crap out of the kick only.

This worked pretty well for us. As a matter of fact, we took the tracks to a 'real' studio when it was time for the vocals, and they wanted to know how we got the drums to sound that good.
 
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