Tuning a 12 string?
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astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
Exactly. Each pitch is doubled.
Edit: they're not the same octave however. for instance, E4 and E5, A4 and A5.. and so on. I don't know if those are the actual octaves but I hope you get my meaning.
Exactly. Each pitch is doubled.
Edit: they're not the same octave however. for instance, E4 and E5, A4 and A5.. and so on. I don't know if those are the actual octaves but I hope you get my meaning.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
The chorussing effect of a twelve string guitar comes, in part, from marginal pitch differences.
If you tune in octaves and unison, you have to hope that fractional differences in intonation accuracy will provide the detuning effect.
With a highly accurate tuner, it should be possible to have one string in a unison course sharp and the other flat by equal percentages.
For the octave courses, the fingering of two different gauges will introduce some pitch difference. There are ways to calculate this and compensate for it but it is a lot of work and most listeners will not notice.
The chorussing effect of a twelve string guitar comes, in part, from marginal pitch differences.
If you tune in octaves and unison, you have to hope that fractional differences in intonation accuracy will provide the detuning effect.
With a highly accurate tuner, it should be possible to have one string in a unison course sharp and the other flat by equal percentages.
For the octave courses, the fingering of two different gauges will introduce some pitch difference. There are ways to calculate this and compensate for it but it is a lot of work and most listeners will not notice.
Rand-O-Monium
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
Fat strings side first...
Fat strings side first...
treyhaislip
Well-known member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
Good advice given! Definitely want to tune the regular strings first and then the smaller/octave ones.
You can choose to either tune the octave strings the same OR slightly detune...they are higher pitched so you will have the shimmering effect regardless of them being detuned. Detuning will give you more of a chorus effect–tune until you get what you personally like.
12 Strings require a bit of patience BUT are oh so worth it!
Good advice given! Definitely want to tune the regular strings first and then the smaller/octave ones.
You can choose to either tune the octave strings the same OR slightly detune...they are higher pitched so you will have the shimmering effect regardless of them being detuned. Detuning will give you more of a chorus effect–tune until you get what you personally like.
12 Strings require a bit of patience BUT are oh so worth it!
Liko
Member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
I think you're overthinking it. Given that most of the pairs are of different gauges and have different tensions when tuned exactly to pitch, fretting the two strings will change their tension and thus their pitch by differing amounts, more than enough to produce the shimmer you're after without intentionally being out of tune. Heck, even the subtle time differences between when the pick releases each of the strings during a strum and as the string stabilizes into its waveform will naturally "flange" the pitch slightly as you play. So, tune it properly; that's enough of a job without worrying about being exactly X fraction of a cent sharp on one string and X fraction flat.
To the OP, the sets I've seen/used for acoustic twelve-string have octave pairs for the wound strings (E-A-D-G) and unison pairs for the bare strings (B-E'). That actually makes the pair string for the wound G the highest-pitch open string on the guitar, a minor third higher than the high E strings.
I think you're overthinking it. Given that most of the pairs are of different gauges and have different tensions when tuned exactly to pitch, fretting the two strings will change their tension and thus their pitch by differing amounts, more than enough to produce the shimmer you're after without intentionally being out of tune. Heck, even the subtle time differences between when the pick releases each of the strings during a strum and as the string stabilizes into its waveform will naturally "flange" the pitch slightly as you play. So, tune it properly; that's enough of a job without worrying about being exactly X fraction of a cent sharp on one string and X fraction flat.
To the OP, the sets I've seen/used for acoustic twelve-string have octave pairs for the wound strings (E-A-D-G) and unison pairs for the bare strings (B-E'). That actually makes the pair string for the wound G the highest-pitch open string on the guitar, a minor third higher than the high E strings.
Rand-O-Monium
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
That's the way I do it,tune the "regular" string set first.
Then I just "ear-ball" it w/the octaves/unisons...
That's the way I do it,tune the "regular" string set first.
Then I just "ear-ball" it w/the octaves/unisons...
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
Well, you know Im almost 80 % deaf, so there is no earballing with me. Im afraid if I dont use the tuner, Im gonna end up with a 6 string acoustic when I pop all those small strings over tightening them..
Well, you know Im almost 80 % deaf, so there is no earballing with me. Im afraid if I dont use the tuner, Im gonna end up with a 6 string acoustic when I pop all those small strings over tightening them..
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
Standard Tuning for a 12-string:
6th String--Low E + octave
5th String--Low A + octave
4th String--Low D + octave
3rd String--Low G + octave
2nd String--High B--Paired, in UNISON (same gauge)
1st String--High E-- Paired, in UNISON (same gauge)
These pairs of strings are called "courses". Thus a 12-string guitar has six courses of strings. The famous Hamer 12-string bass has FOUR courses of three strings each.
Most 12-string are strung so that the lighter octave strings are hit first on the down-stroke. Rickenbacker designs their 12-string guitars so that the primary string is hit first. This can be changed to either system on any guitar, but will require a new nut and re-intonation.
My preferred strings for my 12-string guitars are D'Addario. On my electrics, I use the EXL150 Regular Light, 10-46 gauge 12-string sets. For my Takamine EF381SC acoustic-electrics, I prefer the coated EXP38 Phosphor Bronze 12-string sets, in 10-47 gauge. I tune to standard pitch.
Many 12-string players tune down 2, 3, or even 4 half-steps using heavier strings for a deeper tone, or to better accompany their voice. One notable player that does this is Leo Kottke. Kottke's Signature Taylor 12-string guitar is specifically braced to use the heavier strings in a lowered tuning. The top of a 12-string acoustic is heavier braced than its 6-string counterpart, so the heavier strings help drive the top better for slightly more volume. Down-tuning then helps keep the guitar intact for longer than 5-minutes. A 12-string puts a tremendous amount of pressure on a thin spruce top. D'Addario does offer heavier Phosphor Bronze string sets for these lowered tunings, in their uncoated J-series.
And of course, there are several players who use alternate, non-standard tuning, such as DADGAD. Check out fingerstylist Chris Proctor (a long-time Taylor clinician) and Boston-based Tracy Moore. Good stuff.
I hope this helps.
Bill
Standard Tuning for a 12-string:
6th String--Low E + octave
5th String--Low A + octave
4th String--Low D + octave
3rd String--Low G + octave
2nd String--High B--Paired, in UNISON (same gauge)
1st String--High E-- Paired, in UNISON (same gauge)
These pairs of strings are called "courses". Thus a 12-string guitar has six courses of strings. The famous Hamer 12-string bass has FOUR courses of three strings each.
Most 12-string are strung so that the lighter octave strings are hit first on the down-stroke. Rickenbacker designs their 12-string guitars so that the primary string is hit first. This can be changed to either system on any guitar, but will require a new nut and re-intonation.
My preferred strings for my 12-string guitars are D'Addario. On my electrics, I use the EXL150 Regular Light, 10-46 gauge 12-string sets. For my Takamine EF381SC acoustic-electrics, I prefer the coated EXP38 Phosphor Bronze 12-string sets, in 10-47 gauge. I tune to standard pitch.
Many 12-string players tune down 2, 3, or even 4 half-steps using heavier strings for a deeper tone, or to better accompany their voice. One notable player that does this is Leo Kottke. Kottke's Signature Taylor 12-string guitar is specifically braced to use the heavier strings in a lowered tuning. The top of a 12-string acoustic is heavier braced than its 6-string counterpart, so the heavier strings help drive the top better for slightly more volume. Down-tuning then helps keep the guitar intact for longer than 5-minutes. A 12-string puts a tremendous amount of pressure on a thin spruce top. D'Addario does offer heavier Phosphor Bronze string sets for these lowered tunings, in their uncoated J-series.
And of course, there are several players who use alternate, non-standard tuning, such as DADGAD. Check out fingerstylist Chris Proctor (a long-time Taylor clinician) and Boston-based Tracy Moore. Good stuff.
I hope this helps.
Bill
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Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
For tuning stability and working with all the extra tension on the neck and soundboard try this:
step 1: Start with the high strings first and tune to pitch, then work your way down. As you tune each subsequent string, start at the high strings again and repeat the process until all strings stay in pitch. This will balance the tension on the neck and soundboard and stabilize the guitar.
Step 2: Start at the top again but this time stretch each individual string. Retune. Keep repeating the process until stretching does not detune the string. Work your way down through the strings, remembering to retune/restretch from to the top again as needed.
This should keep your tuning as close to rock solid as possible for as long as possible while you play. Spend the extra time doing this thoroughly and you won't have too worry so much about constantly retuning later.
The high E and B strings are tuned in unison. The, G, D, A and low E are all tunes to octaves.
For tuning stability and working with all the extra tension on the neck and soundboard try this:
step 1: Start with the high strings first and tune to pitch, then work your way down. As you tune each subsequent string, start at the high strings again and repeat the process until all strings stay in pitch. This will balance the tension on the neck and soundboard and stabilize the guitar.
Step 2: Start at the top again but this time stretch each individual string. Retune. Keep repeating the process until stretching does not detune the string. Work your way down through the strings, remembering to retune/restretch from to the top again as needed.
This should keep your tuning as close to rock solid as possible for as long as possible while you play. Spend the extra time doing this thoroughly and you won't have too worry so much about constantly retuning later.
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
My 12-string Ovation has a tuner on it, and I find it helps me get it in quite a bit faster than going by ear. I've never worried about intentionally making the higher set just a little off, just tune 'em right to pitch. Playing the guitar will cause little nuances in pitch to occur and give you the chorus effect all by itself. Think about it this way: you play a "G" chord and end up with a total of 6 "G" notes being played... one low, two middle, and three high. They're never going to stay perfect with one another anyway and you'll end up with a more natural sounding chorus. If you find you want more chorus, THEN start farting around with detuning some strings. I wouldn't over-think it!
My 12-string Ovation has a tuner on it, and I find it helps me get it in quite a bit faster than going by ear. I've never worried about intentionally making the higher set just a little off, just tune 'em right to pitch. Playing the guitar will cause little nuances in pitch to occur and give you the chorus effect all by itself. Think about it this way: you play a "G" chord and end up with a total of 6 "G" notes being played... one low, two middle, and three high. They're never going to stay perfect with one another anyway and you'll end up with a more natural sounding chorus. If you find you want more chorus, THEN start farting around with detuning some strings. I wouldn't over-think it!
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
Excellent!! Thanks for the Great breakdown Boogie Bill and all the other input guys!! So the octave string will be same note, just next octave? I know last time I tried to tune a 12 I made a mess of things..
Yeah, will probably keep things tuned to pitch.. but when you guys say set the higher strings alittle off, am I understanding that you are say leave em just a small bit sharp or flat??
Excellent!! Thanks for the Great breakdown Boogie Bill and all the other input guys!! So the octave string will be same note, just next octave? I know last time I tried to tune a 12 I made a mess of things..
Yeah, will probably keep things tuned to pitch.. but when you guys say set the higher strings alittle off, am I understanding that you are say leave em just a small bit sharp or flat??
Last edited:
Duffy1949
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
When I put on new strings I always start with the guitar tuned and replace one string at a time, tuning after putting on each string to keep it in tune.
When I am done the guitar is in tune.
This method keeps the neck under the same stress and stable. I do it this way on all my guitars. Other people have their preferences. It shocks me when a guitar tech cuts off all the strings at once and the neck destresses instantly. The necks don't always come back exactly like they were after restringing. Buzzing etc.
When I put on new strings I always start with the guitar tuned and replace one string at a time, tuning after putting on each string to keep it in tune.
When I am done the guitar is in tune.
This method keeps the neck under the same stress and stable. I do it this way on all my guitars. Other people have their preferences. It shocks me when a guitar tech cuts off all the strings at once and the neck destresses instantly. The necks don't always come back exactly like they were after restringing. Buzzing etc.
regan
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
Many (myself included) to D ie: D,G,C,F,a,d, it's reduces tension on the guitar & makes it either to play.
Use a capo at the 2nd fret, or even better relearn the chords now they're a tone down & when you play along with a 6 string in E some of the different shapes compliment each other beautifully & can be quite breathtaking, Especially the big E on a 12 which is now D which really fills out the 4 string D on a regular 6, & the big G becomes F allowing some open string to ring out
A becomes G,
B becomes A
C becomes A#
D becomes C
E becomes D
F becomes D#
G becomes F
If you experiment with altered tunings DADGAD & DADF#AD sound great with a twelve (but a nightmare to tune)
Like I mentioned before try to get into the habit of tuning down a further step or half step again when not playing the guitar. the tensions 12's are under is incredible so give the guitar a chance for a 'breather' when noy being played
Many (myself included) to D ie: D,G,C,F,a,d, it's reduces tension on the guitar & makes it either to play.
Use a capo at the 2nd fret, or even better relearn the chords now they're a tone down & when you play along with a 6 string in E some of the different shapes compliment each other beautifully & can be quite breathtaking, Especially the big E on a 12 which is now D which really fills out the 4 string D on a regular 6, & the big G becomes F allowing some open string to ring out
A becomes G,
B becomes A
C becomes A#
D becomes C
E becomes D
F becomes D#
G becomes F
If you experiment with altered tunings DADGAD & DADF#AD sound great with a twelve (but a nightmare to tune)
Like I mentioned before try to get into the habit of tuning down a further step or half step again when not playing the guitar. the tensions 12's are under is incredible so give the guitar a chance for a 'breather' when noy being played
regan
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
I've heard this before & it's a misnomer and potentially scaremongering, the neck cannot destress instantly to the degree you describe, perhaps if you leave it stringless for a few weeks the neck may move a little but if it's truss rod is installed correctly (which even on budget guitars they invariably are) it can be brought back with a 1/8th a turn of the truss rod.
Guitars are sturdier constructs than most give credit for, and if anything the stress they are consistently under from the strings is more detrimental to the guitar than leaving it unstrung, as the countless owners of the ubiquitous broken gibson headstock will attest.
I don't think there's any rightway or wrongway but here's what I do:
Slacken all of the strings so when cut they won't take my eye out.
Cut them all at the bridge end & unwrap them from the tuners.
Dip a cloth in water with a spot of mild detergent (washing up liquid) & squeeze it out so it's barely damp & wipe down the guitar
take a CLEAN toothbrush (ie not the one you use to brush your teeth but a new cheapo on) an use it where the frets meet the fretboard & on the metal hardware, again dipped in the detergent soulution if neccesary.
if an ebony or rosewood fingerboard evaluate how dried out it is, if it is dry apply a couple of drops of lemon oil to it & rub it down into the fingerboard.
leave it as is for 2-3 hours & wipe off any excess lemon oil with a piece of kitchen towel.
string up & tune up
stretch the strings, ie pull the strings up and away 90 degress away from the fretboard/guitar top, you'll pull them about 1/2" before they snap back, do this 10-12 times for each string & retune. you may have to repeat the last step every time you play for a few days until the strings settle & hold tuning better
It works for me & it's an eyeopener how grimy and/or dry fretboards can get if left
Hope it's helpful to others
I've heard this before & it's a misnomer and potentially scaremongering, the neck cannot destress instantly to the degree you describe, perhaps if you leave it stringless for a few weeks the neck may move a little but if it's truss rod is installed correctly (which even on budget guitars they invariably are) it can be brought back with a 1/8th a turn of the truss rod.
Guitars are sturdier constructs than most give credit for, and if anything the stress they are consistently under from the strings is more detrimental to the guitar than leaving it unstrung, as the countless owners of the ubiquitous broken gibson headstock will attest.
I don't think there's any rightway or wrongway but here's what I do:
Slacken all of the strings so when cut they won't take my eye out.
Cut them all at the bridge end & unwrap them from the tuners.
Dip a cloth in water with a spot of mild detergent (washing up liquid) & squeeze it out so it's barely damp & wipe down the guitar
take a CLEAN toothbrush (ie not the one you use to brush your teeth but a new cheapo on) an use it where the frets meet the fretboard & on the metal hardware, again dipped in the detergent soulution if neccesary.
if an ebony or rosewood fingerboard evaluate how dried out it is, if it is dry apply a couple of drops of lemon oil to it & rub it down into the fingerboard.
leave it as is for 2-3 hours & wipe off any excess lemon oil with a piece of kitchen towel.
string up & tune up
stretch the strings, ie pull the strings up and away 90 degress away from the fretboard/guitar top, you'll pull them about 1/2" before they snap back, do this 10-12 times for each string & retune. you may have to repeat the last step every time you play for a few days until the strings settle & hold tuning better
It works for me & it's an eyeopener how grimy and/or dry fretboards can get if left
Hope it's helpful to others
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BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
I've never been much for getting too far out there with altered tunings, personally, but even taking a 12-string to Drop-D gives it a great rounded out sound and really fills out.
I'm intrigued, though, by the concept of dropping a full step all-around (D-G-C-F-A-D). My 12-string recently came up with a bowed top and I need to get it repaired, but once that's taken care of I may give that a try. :fing2:
I've never been much for getting too far out there with altered tunings, personally, but even taking a 12-string to Drop-D gives it a great rounded out sound and really fills out.
I'm intrigued, though, by the concept of dropping a full step all-around (D-G-C-F-A-D). My 12-string recently came up with a bowed top and I need to get it repaired, but once that's taken care of I may give that a try. :fing2:
regan
New member
Re: Tuning a 12 string?
The same thing happened to a 12 of mine, to get an acoustic to sing the top needs to be as thin and light as possible which is problematic with the tension a 12 brings, I think detuning 12's is a good thing all round
The same thing happened to a 12 of mine, to get an acoustic to sing the top needs to be as thin and light as possible which is problematic with the tension a 12 brings, I think detuning 12's is a good thing all round
