Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

O

Orange

New member
Hi everyone.

A few years back i started this crazy idea of putting together a copy of george lynch's original tiger guitar (no floyd rose, strat neck and headstock).

I ended up getting a pretty good replica, and also the best guitar i have ever played for heavy music.

A little bit of tiger porn for you...
tiger2.jpg
tiger.jpg

Now my problem is that there's a single volume pot. I thought it would be cool because i would roll it down to get clean sounds out of the screaming demon, but as it turns out it removes highs and sustain too...

Also, depending on my settings, the pickup can sound shrill and trebly, but i still like it.

So i figured, instead of changing the whole thing, why not try to add a cap to turn the volume into a tone ?

Please keep in mind i'm experienced at soldering pickups but i dont know the electronics behind it, i just follow diagrams. I don't know how that could affect my guitar, and if it's a good idea to have a single tone, but i do know that i actually roll the tone down on every single guitar i own to dial down the treble on the bridge pickup.

I tend to choose trebly pickups with a lot of clarity based on the fact that you can tone it down, but you can't "add" treble...

My questions are very basic :
- Is it That simple or am i missing something ?
- Can i use my pot or should i get a new one ? It's a 500 non linear pot.
- What Cap value should i use ? Should i just use the same as on another guitar i own that works fine ?
- Does anyone owns a guitar without a volume pot and is that a problem ?

Thanks for the advice i have no idea what i'm doing on this specific problem, it seems easy but i'm not sure if i'm missing something here...
 
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Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

In my opinion, yes, you are missing something. The absence of a tone pot is integral to that sort of Rawk Geetar.

The issue with the volume pot reducing treble as it is turned down is indicative of a cheap pot. I suggest that you either purchase a high quality pot (Bourns, DiMarzio Pro Parts or similar) or add a treble bypass network to your existing pot.
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

Funkfingers said:
In my opinion, yes, you are missing something. The absence of a tone pot is integral to that sort of Rawk Geetar.

The issue with the volume pot reducing treble as it is turned down is indicative of a cheap pot. I suggest that you either purchase a high quality pot (Bourns, DiMarzio Pro Parts or similar) or add a treble bypass network to your existing pot.
Click to expand...

I know it is and that's what i originally liked, but i just don't use the volume...
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

You should try a treble bleed mod before you do anything else, because it's both easy to do and directly addresses the problem you've described. It will retain treble as you turn down the volume.

I prefer my own values, but here's the Kinman version:

kinman.png


You can buy assortments of caps and resistors on amazon and try lots of values out, or get a "trim pot" resistor with a max value of anything between 200k and 500k, which lets you increase or decrease the resistance anywhere from the max value to zero with a tiny screw driver.

If you're set on a seperate tone control, get a concentric pot, something like this

http://www.amazon.com/CONCENTRIC-500K-WITH-BLACK-KNOBS/dp/B0006ZRN72
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

The one on Amazon includes the knobs, though. It's just an example. Try to find one without a center dimple if you can.
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

Extra $20? $20 is the total cost for both the knobs and the pos, so it would only be $20 more if the alternative were free, $0.00. I don't even give a ****, there's a lot of pots and knobs to choose from, but your statements are incorrect none the less.

OP, if you get a concentric pot, I advise getting a complete set as there are varying sizes of shafts, and they do a poor job of describing the various shaft sizes on either the pot or the receiving knob product descriptions. If you get a packaged pair, you can be pretty sure everything will fit together. I have a handful of spare concentric pot parts from having made this mistake myself.
 
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Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

I don't use a volume pot much either. If you decide to go that route, its this simple:

vol-to-tone.png
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

DreX said:
Extra $20? $20 is the total cost for both the knobs and the pos, so it would only be $20 more if the alternative were free, $0.00. I don't even give a ****, there's a lot of pots and knobs to choose from, but your statements are incorrect none the less.

OP, if you get a concentric pot, I advise getting a complete set as there are varying sizes of shafts, and they do a poor job of describing the various shaft sizes on either the pot or the receiving knob product descriptions. If you get a packaged pair, you can be pretty sure everything will fit together. I have a handful of spare concentric pot parts from having made this mistake myself.
Click to expand...

Did you get a chance to look at the shipping cost?!! If you don't factor that into the total cost, you're an idiot.
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

GuitarDoc said:
Did you get a chance to look at the shipping cost?!! If you don't factor that into the total cost, you're an idiot.
Click to expand...

Woah, that's harsh. Honestly I didn't even look at the price because a) I was just posting an example of what OP should buy, not THE ONE op should buy,

something like this
Click to expand...

that's what I said.

and b) for things this inherently low in cost, I buy what I want without concerning myself too much with the price.
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

Orange said:
I know it is and that's what i originally liked, but i just don't use the volume...
Click to expand...

If you don't use the volume pot as a volume control, why not replace it with a push-pull audio taper pot and use that to switch it between being a volume pot and a tone pot with the volume at 100%? Guitar Electronics has a diagram.

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/pr...Mod-Volume-That-Converts-To-Tone-Control.html

I would use a 500k pot and a 0.047 uF cap, but that's up to you to choose.
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

DreX said:
Woah, that's harsh. Honestly I didn't even look at the price because a) I was just posting an example of what OP should buy, not THE ONE op should buy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right..I did get a bit over the top. It wasn't mean to hurt anyone. Sorry. I look at everything that adds to the cost of an item. Sometimes shipping is the most outrageous cost and I can buy lots of useful stuff for those lost bucks.
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

ArtieToo said:
I don't use a volume pot much either. If you decide to go that route, its this simple:

View attachment 52702
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot i'm trying as we speak.
Got an irange drop type cap on ebay for like 3 euros shipping included. I'll try the modt expensive options later, this mihht just be enough all i need is to tame down the shrill highs.
 
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Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

Ok so i installed my cap following tje diagram above last night.
It´s a 0.022mf orange drop top copy.

Well it doesn't cut it !!!
The pot does remove the shrillness but in doing so it also seems to remove the gain !
I'm left with a muddy horrible sound with no balls and my gain level drops completely.
I'm not sure what to do next.

I guess my first step would be to buy a better pot to begin with, funkfingers suggested using a cheap pot won't give me good results apparently. My pot is 500k which seems to ne too bright, which makes sens considering that there's only one...
So i was thinking of getting one of these gibson type 300k instead, or maybe 250k after all the guitar is basically a strat.
Anyone can suggest me a decent tone pot without spending too much ? Thanks.
Also someone suggested i use a TBX tone, anyone know about these ?

Chrisp said:
If you don't use the volume pot as a volume control, why not replace it with a push-pull audio taper pot and use that to switch it between being a volume pot and a tone pot with the volume at 100%? Guitar Electronics has a diagram.

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/pr...Mod-Volume-That-Converts-To-Tone-Control.html

I would use a 500k pot and a 0.047 uF cap, but that's up to you to choose.
Click to expand...
That actually seems like a good idea. maybe i could get the bestbof both worlds ans also do the treble bleed mod DREX suggested in the process.
 
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Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

Three Euros for one capacitor? You were robbed, pal. Buy them in twenties.

Artie's drawing is a bit vague. It gives the impression that two of the pot terminals tare physically linked to each other. A passive roll off tone control normally only utilises two pot terminals. (#2 and 3)
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

Too bright or too muddy? If your experiment with a tone pot was too muddy there are seemingly two options.
1) It is wired incorrectly
2) You want something other than a tone knob.

If that is the case, that it is too muddy, the last thing you want to do is put a lower value pot in there as that will bring even more high end loss. I would try it again utilizing hanks layout from SD. If that doesn't do it for you I would suggest a treble bleed volume pot.

I like CTS pots in general as a good quality pot.
 
Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

Gibson 1964 said:
Too bright or too muddy? If your experiment with a tone pot was too muddy there are seemingly two options.
1) It is wired incorrectly
2) You want something other than a tone knob.

If that is the case, that it is too muddy, the last thing you want to do is put a lower value pot in there as that will bring even more high end loss. I would try it again utilizing hanks layout from SD. If that doesn't do it for you I would suggest a treble bleed volume pot.

I like CTS pots in general as a good quality pot.
Click to expand...
Thats the thing, on 10 its too bright but as soon as i roll the pot everything becomes muddy with no definition, sustain or attack.

The thing is my pot with the cap reacts the same way it did when i used it as a volume, on 10 its ok but as soon as ibturn it it seems to "eat" my sound. It doesnt seem to be usable, on my other guitars it usually has a middle ground where the tone is adjustable and after a certain point it becomes muddy.

I'm pretty sure its a tone i want i use it on my strat with the same pickups and its great it just takes off enough treble to make it smooth instead of ice picky.
I also use the tone on my SG knockoff with my duncan super V for the same reason with similar results, more beef less ice pick.

.
 
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Re: Turning my volume pot into a tone pot ?

^ Redo the wiring but like in the diagram I attached, it should work as a tone pot.

The pickup is a screaming demon? Before when the pot was a vol pot & things got muddy by backing the vol down, a treble bleed mod would help out. A 150k resistor in parallel with 1nF cap will do, should be able to find one at most radio repair stores near you.
 
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