Unusual pickup configuration

[Ludwigvan]

Hey guys,

I've been a lurker here for a while, I've gotten lots of helpful advice for some of my projects, so thanks! You guys really know what the hell your talking about!

But now I'm a bit stuck. I just got a new guitar, it's basically a Les Paul with a floyd on it and the usual configuration; two volumes, two tones and a three way pickup selector. But it also has two dpdt switches (with no middle positions) on it. One splits the coils and the other switches them from passive to active.

So I'm replacing the stock pickups, I like the coil split option but I hate the active one. I'd rather if I could put in out of phase or in parallel but I've no idea how to do it. I can't find any schematics anywhere with two dpdt switches. I've tried to figure it out myself but there's so many wires my brain is about to explode! There's probably an easy answer to this, have I just made the whole thing too complicated?

Can anyone help me get back my sanity? Any help appreciated.

 

[MojoMonster]

Re: Unusual pickup configuration

Hey guys,

I've been a lurker here for a while, I've gotten lots of helpful advice for some of my projects, so thanks! You guys really know what the hell your talking about!

But now I'm a bit stuck. I just got a new guitar, it's basically a Les Paul with a floyd on it and the usual configuration; two volumes, two tones and a three way pickup selector. But it also has two dpdt switches (with no middle positions) on it. One splits the coils and the other switches them from passive to active.

So I'm replacing the stock pickups, I like the coil split option but I hate the active one. I'd rather if I could put in out of phase or in parallel but I've no idea how to do it. I can't find any schematics anywhere with two dpdt switches. I've tried to figure it out myself but there's so many wires my brain is about to explode! There's probably an easy answer to this, have I just made the whole thing too complicated?

Can anyone help me get back my sanity? Any help appreciated.

Pics and/or model would help.
Any push/pull pot wiring is a dpdt switch, so both your current switches are on/on with one selecting humbucker/split and the other active/passive.

Since you've got an active system, there is probably a circuit board and battery involved. Yes?

The way I see it you have two choices... ditch the active system and put in a completely new wiring scheme based on what you want.
Or decipher the active system so that you can add OOP and series/parallel.
Seeing as how you say you don't like the active mode I'd say pull that out and rewire it the way you want.
That said, you should look into getting a pair of SD Triple Shots.
I just installed a set onto my Trad Pro LP with 2 push/pulls set to do OOP and series/parallel on both pickups and new PIO caps and it rocks.
If your switches have 6 lugs, you could easily wire them to do the same as the push/pulls.

If you want to decipher and use the active system you'll need to post pics.
It's possible the manufacturer would be able to help in adding those switches.
Have you contacted them?

MM

 

[Ludwigvan]

Re: Unusual pickup configuration

Hey MojoMonster, thanks for your help. Here's some photos:

You can see the two dpdt switches here.

Here's the wire nightmare. You can see the active circuit board hanging outside. It seems to be attached to one of the DPDTs (the bottom one), the input jack and the battery compartment.

This is about as close as my camera can get. The pots are 500K. You can see the two DPDT switches at the top and bottom in between the pots.

Here she is in all her glory. It's a custom Indie LP.

I don't like the active option, I'm going to take it all out and just stick with the passive, it's much more pleasing to my ears, I have a few spare humbuckers lying about waiting for a good home. I'd like to keep one of the switches for the coil split and I'd like to use the other switch for for changing to parallel or even out of phase. I'd like to do it with what I've got here if I can, rather that buying more switches and bits and pieces.

It's really the switches that are throwing me off, I've never wired one up before. Anything I've ever done before has just been: two humbuckers, one volume, one tone and a pickup selector. With all these extra tone pots, volume pots and switches I don't know what's going on!

 

[Ludwigvan]

Re: Unusual pickup configuration

Ok, I've had a look around, can anybody tell if this would work?

http://www.1728.com/guitar.htm
If you go to the last diagram on the section about humbuckers called Humbucking Pickup Wired for Series/Parallel Switching with Separate Switch for Coil Cut. Would I able to do this and just treat one of the DPDT switches like a SPST by using just one side of the terminals (left or right) and ignoring one of the outside terminals (top or bottom)? I imagine this would work. Is there something I'm missing or some disadvantage because the switch on the guitar is a DPDT?

And would there be a way to get an out of phase selection on top of all of these with the switches I have already in the guitar (As far as I can see it's not possible)? I could live without it, no harm in wondering though!

 

[MojoMonster]

Re: Unusual pickup configuration

Ok, I've had a look around, can anybody tell if this would work?

Short answer, is not without replacing the pickups and rewiring.
Though, you could try talking to whoever made the active system about how it's wired.

http://www.1728.com/guitar.htm
If you go to the last diagram on the section about humbuckers called Humbucking Pickup Wired for Series/Parallel Switching with Separate Switch for Coil Cut. Would I able to do this and just treat one of the DPDT switches like a SPST by using just one side of the terminals (left or right) and ignoring one of the outside terminals (top or bottom)? I imagine this would work. Is there something I'm missing or some disadvantage because the switch on the guitar is a DPDT?

To answer the question, yes, you can only use one side of the DPDT.

And would there be a way to get an out of phase selection on top of all of these with the switches I have already in the guitar (As far as I can see it's not possible)? I could live without it, no harm in wondering though!

Ok, it looks like the circuit board is encased in a box.
Is it sealed?
Are the pickups low impedance?
I suspect they are.
If so, you'll need to replace them if you want to ditch the active system.

Sorry bro, but I'm thinking that unless you want to do major surgery, you're out of luck.

That said, you could look at replacing that system with something from EMG.
They make circuitry to do things like coil split.

MM

 

[Ludwigvan]

Re: Unusual pickup configuration

Cool, thanks dude, much appreciated.

I'm just going to gut out the electronics and rewire the whole thing from scratch. I have two DiMarzio Air Classics waiting for a good home, I don't want the guitars original pickups or the active system. On the plus side I can use the battery compartment for storing picks!

So I think the idea is to wire one DPDT as a master series/parallel switch and hook that up to the other DPDT which I'll be using as a SPST for splitting the coils in series mode. Would it work if I wired the guitar up first just like a standard Les Paul, make sure that's working and worry about the DPDTs afterward? I think this would work.

Also, you can see little orange caps on the tone pots in the photos, should I just leave them where they are?

When I look at the schematic I referred to in my last post I'm not entirely sure how the SPST switch splits the coil. This would be so much easier if there was a schematic with exactly the configuration I want on it but I just can't seem to find one anywhere. I'll guess I'll just have to do some improvisation and take my chances with a bit of trial and error.

 

[Ludwigvan]

Re: Unusual pickup configuration

Can anybody tell me if this is schematic I'm looking for?

Oh, and is there any real difference between the push/pull pot and the DPDT? Where would I put the volume pot in all of this? How would I make the extra connections?

Thanks, and again I'm relatively new to this, so any help is good help!

 

[MojoMonster]

Re: Unusual pickup configuration

Yeppers, that schematic is what you want.

Oh, and is there any real difference between the push/pull pot and the DPDT?/QUOTE]
Nope.

[Where would I put the volume pot in all of this? How would I make the extra connections?

Your schematic shows 2 push/pull volumes.
Just imagine the push/pull part on top of the pot as your switch and you're good.
I'd wire it up exactly as shown.
Your actual wiring will look slightly different from the schematic as you have to reach further from the pot to the switch, but it will be effectively the same.

Also, you can see little orange caps on the tone pots in the photos, should I just leave them where they are?

Since you're putting all new stuff in, I'd go with new caps as well.
If you're looking for that "vintage rock and roll" sound, I'd recommend paper-in-oil, PIO, caps. Be aware that they can be a little pricey.
If you're not, Sprague Orange Drops are nice sounding as well.
Typically, .022uf caps can be used for both neck and bridge, but some folks use .015/.01uf for the neck cap instead.

Good luck and let us know how it went.

MM

 

[Ludwigvan]

Re: Unusual pickup configuration

Cool. Looks like I'm all set to ruin my guitar, haha!

I'll check out those caps and see what I can find.

Well, thanks for your help on this MojoMonster, you're a gentleman and a scholar! Even just the assurance I'm going in the right direction makes all the difference.