ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

[STRATDELUXER97]

Last night I brought my Marshall V30 4x12 cab to practice and used it with my new Vox Valvetronix 120 watt stereo head..The amp was run in stereo through the cab...

All of the presets that I had dialed in sounded absolutely amazing before the whole band started playing...What I'm finding in my situation(We play classic rock mostly)is this:

The Fender 4x10 and BF 2x12 tones always save the day for me,simply because the tone is ballsy and the mids sit perfect in our bands mix...I have to use either my modded Tube Screamers(Which are alot gainier)or my Marshall JackHammer to get the crunch and gain I need....The 4x10 59 Bassman settings were perfect as are the 2x12 BF settings with pedals...The mids and lows were where I wished I could get these 2 Marshall presets!

The SLO 100 setting was great for higher gained tones and it sounded great for Neil Young's "Cinamon Girl" that we do...

Now here's my dilemma with this amp....My 2 most needed Classic Rock presets refuse to sit right in the tone and mix in my band....The "Plexi" and JCM800(UK 80s)tones don't have the correct sounding mids and both of these models seem thin and lack lower mids and that extra "girth" I like with my Marshall tones...The "Plexi" setting with the bass and mids pegged is still not right in the mids and lower mids...First I used my Love Rock Les Paul copy that has a 59 in the neck and an A2 "Hybrid" in the bridge..The middle and neck tones sound pretty good,but the bridge tones I hated! It's almost like I wished I could get the bridge position tone to be closer to the middle and neck tones!

Next I played my strat that has a Texas Hot in the bridge and Surfer middle and neck...The strat tones with both Marshall models was the same in the bridge position or worse as far as the tinny balls lacking tones I heard...

During break,my bass player and I dialed up the 59 Bassman tone and it really got everything I needed the rest of our practice....It had nice lows,was clean with just a bit of breakup with the gain maxed and yet I could roll my guitar volume back and get a nice clean tone with articulation...I added a bit of reverb and life was really good with this preset to cop the early Marshall vibe..

I haven't tryed the Marshall JTM 45 setting on the amp,but I get the feeling this might work pretty similar to the 4x10 Bassman setting,seeing as they are both the same amp basically?

The Vox AC30 and AC30 TBX settings are excellent and I used a really nice overdriven AC30 TBX setting I created for some older Bowie stuff we do..."Rebel Rebel" and "Ziggy Stardust"...This preset gives you that great smooth overdriven class A crunch and it really retains good note definition(Even with the Les Paul) great stuff in this amp...

The Marshall "Plexi" UK 70S and JCM 800 (Uk 80s) models need an eq to be brought around for me to use them though...They just don't sound right...You really need to have a Marshall to get these tones...People don't realize how complex the mids and crunch is on a Marshall and it isn't the easiest amp to copy....

I think a Boss GE-7 placed in the effects loop of this head would make those tones alot better,but at least there are several ways to get great overdriven tones..I haven't tryed the UK 90s JCM 900 or the US High Gain (DSL) models yet? I Loved the DSL amp plugged into a Marshall 4x12 at Sam Ash when it came out,so maybe this model would be great also?


The built in Univibe is excellent,as is the hall effect, spring reverb,and delay and Tape Echo effects....The guys thought I was using my Fulltone Deja Vibe for the Robin Trower "Day Of The Eagle" tune at the end of the night and they were suprised when I showed them that the Deja Vibe wasn't even hooked up last night on my board...The Univibe effect alone these days can easily run you over $200 to have....

For $600 I'm very happy!

 

[Mkf411]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Hey man, what about the dumble models? Have you tried those?

The GE-7 might help the Marshall patches. You really gotta love tweaking with modelling amps. Thanks for the info.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Hey man, what about the dumble models? Have you tried those?

The GE-7 might help the Marshall patches. You really gotta love tweaking with modelling amps. Thanks for the info.

Haven't tryed either of the Boutique settings at practice,but I liked both of those models alot also..

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Bump....Only one reply on this? Hmmmmm?

 

[JeffB]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

John,

I dont know about through a 4x12, but IME, running the bass control past 11 o clock on the UK70's totally goofs the sound up. I never run it past that..it just gets a really crappy low end "flub" and loses punch/highs. But if I keep the bass low, I really enjoy that model for hendrix-ey and early Thin Lizzy type sounds.

The 800 jes doesnt sound right period to my ears. It sounds like a recording of an 800 series. It does not have the "focus" and proper harmonic structure. It's thin, dark, and sterile sounding..especially with any of my bolt on neck guitars. When I had the LP deluxe I was able to get some pretty acceptable sounds out of it with the gain halfway or below and some really serious tweaking, but......ehhh.

However it seems to me that you'd best off with one of the Vox Cabs. After all it IS a modeling amp, and is designed to take into account things like speaker type/distortion characteristics, unlike a "real" amp. I suspect the VOX cab is voiced appropriately taking into account the amps design.

 

[Mkf411]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

+1 some of the Vox cabs are voidless baltic birch, too. I know the VTX combos are baltic birch. Look for a cab from the VTX series. Sometimes they get blown out at Sam Ash or GC. There's something to be said for the neutral speakers designed for modelling. Worth considering.

 

[sac]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Both the vox ad212 and ad412 cabs are baltic birch with the celestion neodyn speakers. very pricey, but they really work well with the valvetronic line of amps. (they should, they were designed for each other).

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

John,

I dont know about through a 4x12, but IME, running the bass control past 11 o clock on the UK70's totally goofs the sound up. I never run it past that..it just gets a really crappy low end "flub" and loses punch/highs. But if I keep the bass low, I really enjoy that model for hendrix-ey and early Thin Lizzy type sounds.

The 800 jes doesnt sound right period to my ears. It sounds like a recording of an 800 series. It does not have the "focus" and proper harmonic structure. It's thin, dark, and sterile sounding..especially with any of my bolt on neck guitars. When I had the LP deluxe I was able to get some pretty acceptable sounds out of it with the gain halfway or below and some really serious tweaking, but......ehhh.

However it seems to me that you'd best off with one of the Vox Cabs. After all it IS a modeling amp, and is designed to take into account things like speaker type/distortion characteristics, unlike a "real" amp. I suspect the VOX cab is voiced appropriately taking into account the amps design.

Problem I had with the UK 70s model is that it's not ballsy enough in the lows or low mids unless I crank both the mids and lows up all the way...Even then it sounded wrong in the low mids through my 4x12...The tone is too thin to me...The JCM 800 sounds like fake vanilla to me also...Those two models so far,kinda suck! :smack: Maybe an eq will help? Can't hurt... :wink:

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

+1 some of the Vox cabs are voidless baltic birch, too. I know the VTX combos are baltic birch. Look for a cab from the VTX series. Sometimes they get blown out at Sam Ash or GC. There's something to be said for the neutral speakers designed for modelling. Worth considering.

Does the matching Vox cabinet fix the two Marshall model's crappy tone though?

John

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

To be honest, I've never heard any modeling amp that can truly duplicate the EL-34 sound properly. Not Line 6 or Vox. They can kinda emulate the sound, but they just don't have that woody midrangey bark that tubes give you. I really like my Valvetronix amp, just like you do, but it does have it's limitations.......just like tube amps have the limitation of sounding grainy when played on 1. Oh well!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

To be honest, I've never heard any modeling amp that can truly duplicate the EL-34 sound properly. Not Line 6 or Vox. They can kinda emulate the sound, but they just don't have that woody midrangey bark that tubes give you. I really like my Valvetronix amp, just like you do, but it does have it's limitations.......just like tube amps have the limitation of sounding grainy when played on 1. Oh well!

I agree with you,especially with the Marshall tones,but I'm really cranking my amp up pretty loud and moving some air,and these 2 Marshall settings pretty much suck! LOL.....The Fender tones are very good and a good pedal is even closer than their poor copy of what a good Marshall should sound like...

Funny cause I own a "Plexi" circuit Marshall,but I'm not carrying two amps around to get those tones! LOL :smack:

 

[Mkf411]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Does the matching Vox cabinet fix the two Marshall model's crappy tone though?

John

Probably not. "A man's got to know his limitations." :smack:

It's probably just not going to happen on the Marshall setting. Let us know if the EQ'ing helps. I tried the the GE-7 in the effects loop but wasn't happy.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Probably not. "A man's got to know his limitations." :smack:

It's probably just not going to happen on the Marshall setting. Let us know if the EQ'ing helps. I tried the the GE-7 in the effects loop but wasn't happy.

What happened with the GE-7 through the loop? Wonderful! :smack: :yell:

If it was noise,I'll take care of that.. :13:

 

[Mkf411]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

What happened with the GE-7 through the loop? Wonderful! :smack: :yell:

If it was noise,I'll take care of that.. :13:

Well it was OK. A bit of noise, but not really that bad. I tried it with the smile pattern and the frown pattern (slider position) and flat with some bass pulled out. It was kinda cool, but I'm not really a guy that likes to tweak amps that much and it just added another layer of complexity I didn't feel like dealing with so I returned the GE-7 to GC. They make a Boss eq that digitals and allows for pre-sets, that might be more convenient. I came up with a few marshall setting on the 70's and UK Blues that are passable for messing around at home, though. Sometimes I love the Valvetronix and sometime I can't stand it, but I'm that way with most of my gear.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Well it was OK. A bit of noise, but not really that bad. I tried it with the smile pattern and the frown pattern (slider position) and flat with some bass pulled out. It was kinda cool, but I'm not really a guy that likes to tweak amps that much and it just added another layer of complexity I didn't feel like dealing with so I returned the GE-7 to GC. They make a Boss eq that digitals and allows for pre-sets, that might be more convenient. I came up with a few marshall setting on the 70's and UK Blues that are passable for messing around at home, though. Sometimes I love the Valvetronix and sometime I can't stand it, but I'm that way with most of my gear.

I'm only going to try the GE-7 to correct the low mid problems I hear through my setup...If I can dial those tones in better,I'll then just keep those settings and not mess with them except at the amp...

I'm going to run mine into the effects loop where it'll be more quiet...Is that where you ran your's? Into the preamp isn't always the best place in all situations with an EQ..

 

[Mkf411]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Yeah, I ran mine in the effects loop. According to amptone.com the best is one in front of the amp and one in the effects loop. Use the one in front for highgain settings and the one in the effects loop for clean, I believe. A bit complicated and no suggested settings on the GE-7's on amptone.com. But most people seem to feel that the GE-7 on the Valvetronix is best for taking away rather than adding, leave everything else flat.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ValveTronix Head Through The Marshall 4x12 Part 2(Long)

Yeah, I ran mine in the effects loop. According to amptone.com the best is one in front of the amp and one in the effects loop. Use the one in front for highgain settings and the one in the effects loop for clean, I believe. A bit complicated and no suggested settings on the GE-7's on amptone.com. But most people seem to feel that the GE-7 on the Valvetronix is best for taking away rather than adding, leave everything else flat.

The clean tones I've been pretty happy with...I use the BF 2x12, Clean Boutique,and the AC 30 tones....I just want to see if it's possible to bring the UK 70s and the UK 80s tones around...I think it's more of a challenge for me at this point..I'll just let my ears tell me whether I can achieve anything better with the eq? I might just end up polishing a turd? We'll see what happens,plus I'll tweak the EQ pedal and see if I learn something new in the process? It'll be fun.. :dance: If the GE-7 sucks,I'll unload it...