Variation on the SSL5 theme

[fenderiarhs]

I'm an owner of a strat with an SSL5 in the bridge pos and two SSL1 in the middle and neck pos. While i like my SSL5 i strongly feel it requires some tweaking in two main areas:

a) i find the bass freqs of the pickup a bit flabby and not tight. Low strings sound a bit choked higher up on the fretboard

b) i would really like if it had a little bit more output. Not crazy hot rails output but something around the 14k (+) area.

Gotta say i tried the dimarzio FS1 route, and i found it improved on these two points but at the cost of treble freqs and a bit more generic, less organic than the ssl5 sound.

Am i describing an existing single coil pickup out of the regular Duncan range, or should i go the CS route?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

you could try the qp but i dont know if itll do what ya want other than have more output. i think youll have to go custom shop to get what you want

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

I have the same setup and the same issues. This was my solution:

 

[thanaton]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

I'm an owner of a strat with an SSL5 in the bridge pos and two SSL1 in the middle and neck pos. While i like my SSL5 i strongly feel it requires some tweaking in two main areas:

a) i find the bass freqs of the pickup a bit flabby and not tight. Low strings sound a bit choked higher up on the fretboard

b) i would really like if it had a little bit more output. Not crazy hot rails output but something around the 14k (+) area.

Gotta say i tried the dimarzio FS1 route, and i found it improved on these two points but at the cost of treble freqs and a bit more generic, less organic than the ssl5 sound.

Am i describing an existing single coil pickup out of the regular Duncan range, or should i go the CS route?

Keep in mind that a 14k pickup inevitably uses smaller wire, 43 or possibly 44 AWG, so there's not a linear relationship between DC resistance and the output level. Then with rails, the steel blade cores will result in very different inductances than the AlNiCo poles in the SSL-4 or SSl-5, so.. just pretend the DC resistance spec didn't exist at all.

Everything you're describing sounds related the the especially low resonant peak of the SSL-5. You have to get a "hot bridge" that's not quite as nuts as an SSL-5, such as the Twangbanger http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/twang-banger-strat

 

[fenderiarhs]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

I have the same setup and the same issues. This was my solution:

View attachment 77455

Doesn't the 500k pot contribute to an even more ice pick bridge pos? What are the effects of the 450k resistor?

Was browsing the site and came onto something that to my pickup knowldge seems strange. I thought the only difference between the ssl5 and the ssl6 is the stagger. However the output graphic shows that the ssl6 has a higher output than the ssl5. If there isn't any other difference in windings etc how can the stagger alone explain the difference in output?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

the output of the ssl5 and ssl6 are very similar

 

[thanaton]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

Doesn't the 500k pot contribute to an even more ice pick bridge pos? What are the effects of the 450k resistor?

Was browsing the site and came onto something that to my pickup knowldge seems strange. I thought the only difference between the ssl5 and the ssl6 is the stagger. However the output graphic shows that the ssl6 has a higher output than the ssl5. If there isn't any other difference in windings etc how can the stagger alone explain the difference in output?

Their output graphics are all just made up, in all likelihood. Assuming both pickups have identical coils, if the stagger of one is shorter, then technically the inductance and thus the output will be lower, because the coil's flux path will have less permeable material in it, a greater ratio of air.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

there's not a linear relationship between DC resistance and the output level.

this could/should be a stock answer when DC Resistance is referred to as output.

 

[fenderiarhs]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

this could/should be a stock answer when DC Resistance is referred to as output.

Well then, maybe Duncan should update their way of giving an indication on the output of a pickup. Go the Di Marzio way using mVolts perhaps?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

We did have a milivolt chart posted on the forum a few years ago. It wasn't the full line, but I think it was many of them. Thing is, as you add more wire (or go to smaller wire and add more of it), a single coil isn't going to sound tight. It will sound muddier, but the bass won't be anywhere near what a humbucker can get. It just isn't a sound I have heard single coils be good at- they are good at many other things, though. I think the SSL-5 and the QP are my favs of the high output singles I've tried, but I would never describe them as tight.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

Well then, maybe Duncan should update their way of giving an indication on the output of a pickup. Go the Di Marzio way using mVolts perhaps?

Exactly.



Like Mincer said, there is one. But it's only relative to Duncan pickups. There is not a standardized methods that pickup companies use, so looking at the DMZ output for a Super D won't be an apples to apples of a Duncan company output for the DD.

 

[fenderiarhs]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

I have the same setup and the same issues. This was my solution:

View attachment 77455

Still wondering on the purpose of the 470K resistor in this diagram.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

Still wondering on the purpose of the 470K resistor in this diagram.

It increases the load of the neck and middle pickup. You have a 470k resistor, 500k vol pot and a 250k tone pot, all in parallel. The bridge pickup only sees the 500k and 250k in parallel, so it would have a higher Q factor at the resonant peak.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

The best way to know output is to list the inductance, measured at a low frequency, such as 100Hz. That's technically the best way way to do it. Any other method, such as voltage output, is merely adding some arbitrary input voltage, either directly or through induction, which then reacts with the series inductance to produce yet another voltage, which is then recorded. The inductance is as basic as it gets.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

Until companies agreed on a method to test output, you can only test against other pickups that company has tested. A graph showing relative output is essentially the same thing, but our rainbow graph has a few issues too, like each color not being the same length in several examples. A good idea might be a list of pickups in order from highest output to lowest (generally) with no numbers attached. You could easily see that a JB was several pickups away from a '59, for example.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

Have you guys seen this http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/inductance-what-it-is-and-why-it-matters ?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

Dude I think I have your answer here:



Running your SSL-5,1,1 set in series is money for getting more bass and output while retaining the organic strat sound. With the switch engaged, it gives you neck in series with middle on positions 4 and 5. And middle in series with bridge on positions 1 and 2.

It darkens the sound and makes it sound more rockin. I have a 1 meg volume pot with 250 no load tone pot and it is overkill for single coil mode, usually have the tone on 5-7. But on series mode, I have the tone on 8-10.

Such a great mod. Adds bass and output, pushes the sound in a more rock direction while still retaining that stratty sound.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

Dude I think I have your answer

Running your SSL-5,1,1 set in series is money for getting more bass and output while retaining the organic strat sound. With the switch engaged, it gives you neck in series with middle on positions 4 and 5. And middle in series with bridge on positions 1 and 2.

It darkens the sound and makes it sound more rockin. I have a 1 meg volume pot with 250 no load tone pot and it is overkill for single coil mode, usually have the tone on 5-7. But on series mode, I have the tone on 8-10.

Such a great mod. Adds bass and output, pushes the sound in a more rock direction while still retaining that stratty sound.

Are you sure you tried that with a ssl-5? this might be a thing with 3 ssl-1.

Back to my schematic: it gives a more power on the ssl-5 and bring back some overtones on the low strings. Its a wide misconception here in this forum to think, that you have to aviod highs to get more lows. The overtones are in the highs and define the sound on the low strings to make them clearer and standing out in the mix. If you suppress highs, you get more mids and muddy bass. Same with trying to get more low end by boosting them, it brings you to mud city.
BTW be sure that the bass side of the middle and neck pickup is low, otherwise the magnet force of them dampens the low strings.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

Yes I am running the series mod on my sss strat with an SSL-5 in the bridge and SSL-1s in middle and neck. I was thinking about going Quarter Pound for more power but then I happened upon this mod and it has been 100% to my liking. Gives you more bass, more output, and changes your tone from totally bluesy to more rockin while still sounding stratty. Perfect for me. I mean this sounds like a pretty good option. It addresses all the problems that the op was talking about. Wanting more bass and output while staying organic. (I don't know if you'll find it "flabby" or not, I certainly didn't. It sounds tight.)

 

[jeremy]

Re: Variation on the SSL5 theme

wow ssl5+ssl1 in series? with 250k pots i would hate that. obviously with a 1meg volume its significantly different. ive tried running hotter pups in series but usually dont like the results. with two vintage output pups i find the tone very usable albeit maybe a little dark or even murky at times