What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

[Nightburst]

I'm looking to go all out on my '75 Gibson SG: AVR2-N Bridge, Matching tailpiece (VTNA? or T1ZSA?), and Tuners (TPKMB3-N)
This will cost me about 200 Euro's (236 Dollars), which is pricey. The old hardware is ok but has the following issues: tuners don't really hold tuning, bridge rattles and is bend over forward because the brass posts aren't strong enough to withstand the tension from the tailpiece screwed down to the body. Tailpiece is a nice super lightweight one but it sits crooked in the posts (also bend over forward) and I hate the damn thing falling off when I change strings lol.
I'm trying to see if this price is worth it, especially the tailpiece seems ridiculously priced at 100 Euro's...
Does anyone have experience with replacing their 'vintage' hardware with tonepros so that the guitar is gig worthy again? I'm especially concerned with the change in sound it will make, and wonder if tonepros is really as high quality as they claim to be.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

If you are going to spend that much, check out Callaham, or Faber for the hardware, aside from the tuning machines. Faber is less money. Callaham is probably better by consensus, but Faber is pretty darn good stuff either way.
I don't know if I would like the locking studs and I don't think either of the manufacturers I mention offer them. But you should be able to get them as a separate item. I know that, for example, Philadelphia Luthier Supply in the USA sells several types/sizes. I would imagine there are suppliers in Europe who would carry them as well.

Almost forgot ... Graphtech (the nut people) offer some really nice hardware now as well. I have two Godin guitars equipped with it. They use magnets to lock the tailpiece to the studs. Price wise ... pretty expensive.

 

[AlexR]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

Tuners are almost never the cause of poor tuning....thats the nut in over 99% of cases. If you are one of the VERY few where the tuner mechanism does actually slip then the tonepros are good tuners.

The tailpiece always tilts forward unless you go for a locking model. You can actually buy locking studs (cheaper option) that screw down on the tailpiece to lock it as well.

The bridge on your 75 is in the transition period between abr and Nashville. Make sure you pick the right one.
Another trick if you have an ABR is to straighten the brass studs and get a second set of thumbwheels. One set is screwed flush to the body - which prevents lean, the second set is for the typical height adjust as you have already.

Tonepros is known as a slightly dark or more rolled off tone in the general spectrum of hardware.

 

[dystrust]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

Tuners are almost never the cause of poor tuning....thats the nut in over 99% of cases.

Agreed for the most part, but a lot of older tuning machines are junk. I also had a set of "Gibson Deluxe' tuners on an SG Standard that had horrible post wobble.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

There are several companies that make replacement Gibson/Kluson-style tuners. All should be drop-in replacements. Or, consider having a luthier ream the holes for Grovers, a popular mod. Expect a change in tone/resonance.

Your tailpiece is probably heavy zinc alloy. Vintage Gibsons in the '50 used aluminum tailpieces. They sound different. I think Tone Pros offers both materials. The Tone Pros locks to the post with set screws. Supposedly making for better coupling, tuning stability, etc. The types of studs vary in length and material as well. Some LP users even replace the stud mounts.

And the '75 SG featured the Schaller "harmonica" bridge. Not known for having great tone or coupling, they are valued for their wide-range of saddle travel, enabling easy intonation. Replacing this bridge with an ABR-1 type would probably require professional installation.

Your guitar is rapidly entering "vintage", so you will have to balance playabity with maintaining vintage originality. Many vintage enthusiasts will pay for originality.

Some companies like RS Guitarworks offer aged versions of Tone Pros and the Kluson tuners, if you want to keep the vintage look.

I do have one Les Paul Historic that the original owner replaced the bridge with an aged Tone Pros ABR-1 and an aluminum tailpiece. I believe these are made by Gotoh of Japan. IMO, these are of lesser quality than the original Gibson Historic parts. But I have replaced tailpieces on several of my Les Pauls with Gotoh aluminum from Stew-Mac. I like this change.

Whatever you decide, be sure to keep the original parts to include should you ever decide to sell.

I hope this helps.

Bill

 

[BleedingFingertips]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

The tailpiece always tilts forward unless you go for a locking model. You can actually buy locking studs (cheaper option) that screw down on the tailpiece to lock it as well.

+1

Have three guitars with tune-o-matics. They all tilt forward indeed. But my guitars hold the tuning pretty well. I'm not a pro in guitar parts but I actually think that the posts should float a little to leave you some room to perform bends and other wicked stuff with your strings.

 

[AlexR]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

^ any movement is a potential cause of sustain loss due to inefficient energy transfer in the system. The Nashville is a good example of this. I have replaced a few of them with Faber press-in studs for a VAST improvement in tonal balance and sustain.
And as much as I like Jags and JM's they seem to lose a bit of grunt with their trem system. Part of the magic for that guitar style, but I wouldn't want it on any other.

 

[Discharged]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

I'm looking to go all out on my '75 Gibson SG: AVR2-N Bridge, Matching tailpiece (VTNA? or T1ZSA?), and Tuners (TPKMB3-N)
This will cost me about 200 Euro's (236 Dollars), which is pricey. The old hardware is ok but has the following issues: tuners don't really hold tuning, bridge rattles and is bend over forward because the brass posts aren't strong enough to withstand the tension from the tailpiece screwed down to the body. Tailpiece is a nice super lightweight one but it sits crooked in the posts (also bend over forward) and I hate the damn thing falling off when I change strings lol.
I'm trying to see if this price is worth it, especially the tailpiece seems ridiculously priced at 100 Euro's...
Does anyone have experience with replacing their 'vintage' hardware with tonepros so that the guitar is gig worthy again? I'm especially concerned with the change in sound it will make, and wonder if tonepros is really as high quality as they claim to be.

Where in Europe are you located? I might be able to help.

EDIT: Seems that I didn't take enough coffee this morning, as I missed the NL part completely.

Having said that, send a PM to your fellow countryman and luthier extraorinaire, our very own forumite, orpheo, owner of Orpheoguitars, Amsterdam.

He can assist you with everything, specially with consulting the best way to go, as you seem to be set of modding a "vintage" instrument, potentially making it lose its perceived market value.

/Peter

 

[Nightburst]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

Hey guys thanks so much for all the good info and responses!
Mine has the ABR-1 bridge with brass saddles and the tailpiece is so light, it might be aluminum? I have a gotoh tailpiece that is much heavier in my drawer, that's a zink one I think.

Right now I'm happy that its playable again (it was refretted) but it desperately needs some tuning stability, biggest problem: the tuners slip. Got a set of Kluson deluxe but the guitar shop strongly recommended me the tonepros over these mainly because of the improved tuning ratio and generally more solid construction. Going to see what the tuners do, I'm not convinced yet that the tonepros stuff is miles better for that price. The locking posts is a great idea! Still pricey but worth considering.

 

[AlexR]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

75 is the last year of the Al tailpiece....they moved over from ABR and Al to zamak and Nashville bridge as the Nashville plant was getting up to speed that year. The Kalamazoo guitars used the old neck blanks and parts/construction until all used up.

In that way the old hardware will be just as good/better than whatever you put on new - tonally either could suit the guitar depending on what its like as an individual. I for one would not feel the need to replace the parts.....unless the tuners are actually slipping (wobbling in the bushings does not mean slipping). Tuning ratios I find irrelevant - I can tune to the note with the 14's just as well as the 18's, and I have both Kluson and Tonepros and neither have lead to any distinct difference as long as the nut is well cut.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

I put a tonepros on my es335. It was good.
I really like gotoh hardware tho.
Either are an upgrade over the gibson bridge.

Also have a luthoer look at replacing the plastic nut that gibson use and replace it with either a well cut bone nut or one from tusq xl. That wiill make a big difference to tuning stability providing you know how to stretch your strings so they dont slip.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

Where in Europe are you located? I might be able to help.

EDIT: Seems that I didn't take enough coffee this morning, as I missed the NL part completely.

Having said that, send a PM to your fellow countryman and luthier extraorinaire, our very own forumite, orpheo, owner of Orpheoguitars, Amsterdam.

He can assist you with everything, specially with consulting the best way to go, as you seem to be set of modding a "vintage" instrument, potentially making it lose its perceived market value.

/Peter

Ahh, wish I knew this before I had the refret job done! I didn't know a dutch luthier who lives close to me was on the forum too. thx for pointing this out to me, I'll shoot him a pm.
btw I already modded it... the original mini humbuckers didn't do it for me, I actually got a good price for them when i sold them. I routed the holes carefully and now there is a custom made brobucker in the bridge position and its never coming out hehe. It's got a cover but under the hood there is double cream goodness! Don't tell Leo, lol.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

I ordered tonepros locking studs and steel bridgeposts from kluson. I hope it will all retrofit easily and give me the tonal and stability results I'm hoping for.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

There are several companies that make replacement Gibson/Kluson-style tuners. All should be drop-in replacements. Or, consider having a luthier ream the holes for Grovers, a popular mod. Expect a change in tone/resonance.

Your tailpiece is probably heavy zinc alloy. Vintage Gibsons in the '50 used aluminum tailpieces. They sound different. I think Tone Pros offers both materials. The Tone Pros locks to the post with set screws. Supposedly making for better coupling, tuning stability, etc. The types of studs vary in length and material as well. Some LP users even replace the stud mounts.

And the '75 SG featured the Schaller "harmonica" bridge. Not known for having great tone or coupling, they are valued for their wide-range of saddle travel, enabling easy intonation. Replacing this bridge with an ABR-1 type would probably require professional installation.

Your guitar is rapidly entering "vintage", so you will have to balance playabity with maintaining vintage originality. Many vintage enthusiasts will pay for originality.

Some companies like RS Guitarworks offer aged versions of Tone Pros and the Kluson tuners, if you want to keep the vintage look.

I do have one Les Paul Historic that the original owner replaced the bridge with an aged Tone Pros ABR-1 and an aluminum tailpiece. I believe these are made by Gotoh of Japan. IMO, these are of lesser quality than the original Gibson Historic parts. But I have replaced tailpieces on several of my Les Pauls with Gotoh aluminum from Stew-Mac. I like this change.

Whatever you decide, be sure to keep the original parts to include should you ever decide to sell.

I hope this helps.

Bill

Does the change form vintage style Kluson to Grover tuners add or take away resonance from the instrument?

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

Change? Yes.

Better? Worse? Depends on who you talk to, and what you believe.

Personally, it doesn't make much difference to me. I have Pauls with Kluson- style and Grover tuners; both work fine. I bought a '59 Historic that the original owner had replaced the originals with Sperzel lockers, and I restored it with the Gibson Historic-brand Kluson-style tuners.

Bill

 

[Nightburst]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

Change? Yes.

Better? Worse? Depends on who you talk to, and what you believe.

Personally, it doesn't make much difference to me. I have Pauls with Kluson- style and Grover tuners; both work fine. I bought a '59 Historic that the original owner had replaced the originals with Sperzel lockers, and I restored it with the Gibson Historic-brand Kluson-style tuners.

Bill

Just wanted to say that the Sg sounded phenomenal through the f50 in band rehearsal Friday night! I did had to tune strings between every song. Can't wait for parts to come in and start fixing this guitar! Maybe I need some locking tuners on this one?

 

[Nightburst]

Re: What are your experiences with Tonepros Hardware to replace vintage parts?

Update: Parts are in and installed on the guitar, tuners are holding tune much better and don't wobble. Had to use the original bushings as the ones that came with it didn't fit the holes. Steel bridge posts and locking tailpiece posts have made the bridge section more stable, no more buzzing or ringing. So far so good!