What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

[Evan Skopp]

Five years ago, I posed the following to this group:

We’re getting ready to head off to our annual Business Planning retreat next month. We'll assess where we are at the moment and where we want to be in terms of short, medium, and long-term plans for the company. One of the things we plan on discussing is the value of “Made in America” on our Seymour Duncan, Basslines, Custom Shop, Antiquity and Benedetto pickup brands.

I’m going to print out this thread and let the managers read your remarks before we head off to Business Planning. Please let us know your comments. In particular, think about the following: What does “Made in America” mean to you in general and with regard to the Seymour Duncan family of products?​

Partially as a result of your comments, we decided to keep Seymour Duncan pickups made in USA for at least the next five years. You can read about our 2006 decision here.

Well, it’s time, again, for us to revisit this question as we go off to our annual Business Planning retreat later this month.

Please weigh in again and let us know what you think. I guarantee you’ll be heard. Thank you in advance for your comments and thanks in advance for making your response about consumer buying habits and not about geo-politics.

 

[FireBros.]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

The value of made in USA is almost immeasurable. I know there is a place, in the market, for guitar products made in other countries, but I cringe every time I hear of another mfg moving production overseas. Fender and Gibson, both started in the USA, were obviously the most influential brands in the formation of what we know as electric guitar, and their current management seems to understand how to balance a mix of US and foreign made products in their lines. The USA is where Seymour Duncan started, and that means a lot. If SD had started in some other country, I don't think you would have as much to lose by moving production.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

"Made In USA" means the ideal of the supply of a product, meeting the demand for it in such a way that benefits the company enough to continue operations in the long-run, here in the USA. If price levels allow American wages to produce products that the market prefers over products made abroad and the profit allows the manufacturer to continue to grow and meet the demand, it means a lot. If the profit cannot be attained to grow and innovate, by keeping labor solely in the USA, then seeking cheaper labor is a necessity.

I am not against outsourcing labor, if I think globally. It is nice to think nationally and consider the job market here, but very few of us are paid by a pickup company. We all are either employed or unemployed and have budgets. If the price levels do not give me any choice but to find foreign-made products, than "Made in USA" is merely a moniker.

Many of us have stated that the labor of a person in Korea, is not guaranteed to be any worse than a guy working in the USA. Japanese guitars and hardware has become a thing of legend. Kaman/Tama/Ibanez are revered in the market, as is Gotoh.

Should Seymour Duncan outsource? If they do, the choice of manufacturer, must be of equal or... dare I say... better than the folks who work in Cali. If not... I probably won't buy them.

That said, I am very happy with my Chinese-made Lava Box pedal. Great distortion box. SD, Inc did a good job finding a group of Chinese workers who produce quality products. Then again, Sony's Chinese workers made my PS3....

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

In no particular order:

a.) American jobs.
b.) Tradition. Like FireBros said, SD started here.
c.) I like knowing that more money was spent building my pickup than shipping it to me.
d.) I like manufacturing that's done in-house at the company that designed the thing.
e.) I prefer it to when a contract manufacturer just takes an order and copies something.
f.) Overseas production will mark the end of floor-shop customs.
g.) If there's anything we should still be making in the U.S., it's the best guitar pickups on Earth.
h.) Every guitar pickup I own was built in the U.S. Sure, it just happened that way, but I'm not interested in exceptions.
i.) If Seymour Duncans were twice the price but still made domestically, I would keep buying them.

 

[FireBros.]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

g.) If there's anything we should still be making in the U.S., it's the best guitar pickups on Earth.

+1
If we can't make the best pickups, and be competitive on price, I think America's innovative will is completely dead

 

[TheProphet]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

1.) Consumer Confience
2.) Tradition and continuation of Corporate Knowledge
3.) IMO more responsive customer service
4.) Concepts of prestige

However, a suggestion:

I think if Seymour Duncan goes this way (outsourced production), I think you should set up a direct sales website where you can order your pickup and the options online.

Ie. Section > Model > Colour > Wiring > Special options
Humbuckers > JB > Zebra > Single Conductor/Braid > Gold Pole Pieces

Currently I hate dealing with the Canadian Distib. and Dealers on Floor Shop Customs (and regular pickups). I think if I ordered direct from SD I wouldn't have the problems I have had in the past.

 

[SamusChief]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

Seymour Duncan pickups are the best pickups I've ever heard. For me, Made in USA is a form of Quality assurance: That while I may possibly flip guitars, while I will eventually flip amps, the pickups in my guitar will ALWAYS be the very same set of Seymour Duncans I have now.

It's quality control that tells me my pickups may outlive my guitar itself. The Duncan Designed line is one thing, but I want to KNOW before I get it or see it that my pickup is okay. It may be naive, but Made in USA a way to tell me that.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

IMO Made in USA Seymour Duncans means unquestionable quality. Honestly, I don't think I'd be interested in buying an outsourced pickup; I can already get those from GFS, Epiphone, and others. Being Made in USA is what puts Duncan at the top of the mass production pickup makers list.

I'm no businessman; I'm just an impulsive GAS-influenced consumer. But IMO a business model that maybe outsources some of the popular production pickups for a cheaper retail price and higher profit margin might still be successful if equal effort was put into promoting a USA & custom shop line so that the Made in USA target customer would still have their preferred Duncan product available. Hamer guitars comes to mind. They have moved to a model where they have a budget import line, and a high end custom shop line. They no longer have a mass produced standard USA line (I believe).

Whatever you guys decide, I wish you the best and I know Duncan will do what it thinks is best to survive and hopefully thrive in these changing and challenging times.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

How important is it to Seymour to walk out of his office and immediately be able to put his hands on the work?

Will outsourcing make the company better or just bigger and more profitable?

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

IMO Made in USA Seymour Duncans means unquestionable quality. Honestly, I don't think I'd be interested in buying an outsourced pickup; I can already get those from GFS, Epiphone, and others. Being Made in USA is what puts Duncan at the top of the mass production pickup makers list.

I'm no businessman; I'm just an impulsive GAS-influenced consumer. But IMO a business model that maybe outsources some of the popular production pickups for a cheaper retail price and higher profit margin might still be successful if equal effort was put into promoting a USA & custom shop line so that the Made in USA target customer would still have their preferred Duncan product available. Hamer guitars comes to mind. They have moved to a model where they have a budget import line, and a high end custom shop line. They no longer have a mass produced standard USA line (I believe).

Whatever you guys decide, I wish you the best and I know Duncan will do what it thinks is best to survive and hopefully thrive in these changing and challenging times.

I can agree with this. I would pay more for a special USA line. Maybe some trickle-down Zephyr technology to help differentiate them.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

I'll be as clear and to the point as possible...

The very second that SD pickups start being made overseas I will never buy another SD pickup.

It's that simple to me.

 

[tenniso]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

i'd quit buying new ones if they were made somewhere else, and only buy used, MADE IN THE USA SEYMOUR DUNCAN PICKUPS. I too am sick of American companies moving production over seas. if you guys are considering moving production overseas, then it must be for monetary reasons. therefore you guys need to figure out where to save some money, and keep production here. simple as that.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

What does “Made in America” mean to you in general and with regard to the Seymour Duncan family of products?

To me, it means that you are far less likely to be a scumbag company that outsources to cut it's labor costs, rather than giving your own fellow citizens a job. Of course, you could still be a scumbag company that treats your workers like dirt even if you have all U.S. employees, but it seems less likely to me when I see the words "made in the U.S.A."

In terms of quality, it doesn't mean much to me in and of itself. I feel that good-quality things can be made overseas, and bad-quality things can be made in the U.S.A. It always comes down to the specifics of the individual company/product, rather than to generalizations about the quality of product from a certain nation.

However, when I see a product sold by a U.S. company, but it is made outside the nation, it really says a lot to me about the company...a lot of BAD. What I really think about the issue on a political level is that companies should not have their labor performed by people in other countries. Ibañez should employ Japanese workers, in Japan. Samick should employ Korean workers, in Korea. Seymour Duncan should employ U.S. workers, in the U.S. And if they do not, they should be taxed so hard that it actually becomes more expensive for them to outsource than than it does to maintain domestic production.

The fundamental idea behind my beliefs is that nations should not be safe havens for companies to do business unless the company is giving back to society by providing jobs to the citizens and tax dollars to support the operation of the nation that provides that haven. Companies have to find ways to make profits without sacrificing the quality of their product or the livelihoods of the U.S. laborer. (Here is a hint to those corporations: Make your money from selling your products, not by investing in the stock market or some other venture that has nothing to do with your products. Novel concept, eh?)

Seymour Duncan: If you are considering starting to make things outside of the country to cut costs, I think you are looking at it the wrong way. The problem is not the labor costs; you should not take it out on your workers and on U.S. society. The problem is that you cannot figure out how to make a profit because you are not very good businesspeople; you should cut the wages and jobs of high-level managers and/or hire better ones. It isn't the U.S. worker's fault that you aren't making as much money as you would like; don't make them pay for the fact that you are running a struggling business. The best way to solve your problems is to hold up a mirror, rather than pointing a finger.

So, bottom line: Made in America means a lot to me on a political level. It means you are giving my neighbor a job, and therefore improving my neighborhood. I will take kindly to you if I see that. I will try my hardest to not buy your products if I do not see it.

P.S. IMO, you really ought to say "Made in the U.S.A.," as "America" includes much more than just this nation.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

if seymour duncan pickups were made overseas id probably start buying fralins instead.

 

[youngthrasher9]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

In no particular order:

a.) American jobs.
b.) Tradition. Like FireBros said, SD started here.
c.) I like knowing that more money was spent building my pickup than shipping it to me.
d.) I like manufacturing that's done in-house at the company that designed the thing.
e.) I prefer it to when a contract manufacturer just takes an order and copies something.
f.) Overseas production will mark the end of floor-shop customs.
g.) If there's anything we should still be making in the U.S., it's the best guitar pickups on Earth.
h.) Every guitar pickup I own was built in the U.S. Sure, it just happened that way, but I'm not interested in exceptions.
i.) If Seymour Duncans were twice the price but still made domestically, I would keep buying them.

+1. Except my main axe is made in Korea cuz I'm only making minimum wage...

 

[zakk_speed]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

Some good points on this thread that I would echo

1. If mainstream production moved I would source used 'made in the USA' SDs, and would not buy the outsourced ones.
2. If I could buy and exchange pickups direct with SD I would buy more mainstream product.
3. I think you would be better to make the Duncan Designed Pups available to buy directly to combat the cheap imports like GFS and Tonerider (I'm guessing this is why your looking at this)

 

[tenniso]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

This is a great post from the get together at the SD company. this is the reason you guys don't need to move production over seas.
page #2 of the thread, very last post: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=222350&page=2

"Ladies & gents, you would be hard pressed to meet a nicer bunch of folks. This is truly a one of a kind company. You would have to see it to believe it. Extremely high quality products made by people who really care about what goes out to the consumer. This is what American manufacturing was all about when Detroit was putting out the 55 Chevys, Cadillacs and T-birds that became classics "back in the day". You can still find it here in Santa Barbara at Seymour Duncan. That's what I got out of the visit. Thanks big time to Seymour, Cathy, MJ, Evan, Dewi and engineering wizard Kevin Beller for making us all feel right at home. For us guitar/pedal geeks and tone hounds, this was a walk on the clouds. How cool is this? Seymour signed a set of Live Wires that I received from MJ during the visit! Unreal! Are you kidding me? They are going in my USA Handmade 2001 BC Rich ASAP. I'm pretty stoked to say the least."

Evan, if you guys go over seas, all of this goes away. no more mojo.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

MIA is important to me. For many of the reasons already mentioned above. I would try to find another company that I like if you moved...

 

[LesStrat]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

It means a great deal to me to know that there is a personal touch from a close-knit group of employees when manufacturing the tone-producing devices that I use to make my music.

I've been to the factory. The experience INCREASED my sense of loyalty to the company. I never hesitate to recommend SD to others.

That will change if production is outsourced.

Yes I realized that the SD pedals are assembled in China. Yes, I own a TTC. Yet I'm comforted (somewhat) that final assembly/magic/QC occurs in SB. I still have qualms about it, though. I also don't go out of my way to recommend them.

I have faith in the SD employees...in Santa Barbara. I have much less faith in the Chinese workers. They're the ones who sent me a TTC adapter that fell apart when I took it out of the box.

If you want to save money, get out of Kalifornistan.

 

[Gypsyblue]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

if seymour duncan pickups were made overseas id probably start buying fralins instead.

Ditto. I'd look for another pickup line to use, and be proud of using, that was made in the USA. If Duncan pickups were made overseas I would automatically assume that the quality had dropped and that the tones I'd grown to love from Duncan pickups were now gone forever. It would be very hard for me to be won back.