What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

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MichaelScottPerkins

New member
The only guitars I've ever owned had factory American Fender strat and/or tele pickups, or 57' Classic Gibson humbuckers.

I've never played a guitar that has P90s, but I have played in a band with a guy that had them, and they were a really noisy racket. I am relatively new to building pickups, but a friend of mine asked me to make her some P90s. I am excited to try, but I wanted to ask you guys if you think that P90s are what she really wants. The style of music she loves to play is really heavily distorted, but still really jangly and complex... like math-rock, surf-rock, heavily distorted, but sharp and angular... NOT like thick high-gain wall-of-distortion, but more individual notes played rapidly, and in weird qwirky scales and time signatures.

I built her guitar myself, and it can be converted to pretty much any pickup and wiring configuration. It has been a 2x pickup, 2x volume knobs, 2x tone knobs, Les Paul-styled wiring, but I could cut a new pickguard for two humbuckers, 2 P90s, all single coils... whatever is needed.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

P90s vary a great deal. A brighter P90 could work whether you get that brightness from magnet choice, lower winds, or both.


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Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

Lipsticks?
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

Golem said:
P90s vary a great deal. A brighter P90 could work whether you get that brightness from magnet choice, lower winds, or both.


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Yeah... I was thinking Alnico 8 magnets and 43AWG wire.

I was leaning towards 43 AWG wire only because I know that she loves Rickenbacker guitars, and they use 43 AWG wire for their pickups. And I think they are some of the "brightest" pickups there are.

Any idea what kind of impedance or wrap count I should shoot for?
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

Filtertron. It jangles. And it's a humbucker. You could make it in P-90 housing.

Get bass roll off mode too.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

Alnico8's will give you a fairly warm tone though. An Alnico 8, 43 awg p90 will be a fire breathing powerhouse, dwarfing Smaug... I concur with Aceman; a lipstick will be great. A jazzmaster pickup will be epic too: alnico 5 rods (a4 would work even better imho), 42 awg wire, wound to approx. 6.3k for that extra chime and sparkle. Lollar winds his too hot, imho, as does SD.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

Single coils work fine for surf. Adding lots of reverb helps.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

orpheo said:
Alnico8's will give you a fairly warm tone though. An Alnico 8, 43 awg p90 will be a fire breathing powerhouse, dwarfing Smaug... I concur with Aceman; a lipstick will be great. A jazzmaster pickup will be epic too: alnico 5 rods (a4 would work even better imho), 42 awg wire, wound to approx. 6.3k for that extra chime and sparkle. Lollar winds his too hot, imho, as does SD.
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Awesome feedback @orpheo! Thanks!

The reason i said Alnico 8 for the P90 is because of this listing from Tone Kraft:

Tone Kraft 0.195" dia. sand cast vintage bevel Alnico 8 magnets. (Non-Magnetized).
Relatively new to the music market, Alnico 8 magnets offer a great alternative to ceramic magnets. These are strong rod magnets with a naturally aggressive tone. Used often in hot bridge position pickups, these magnets offer a heavy bottom, high output, and relatively full mids
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When I think of ceramic magnet pickups, I think of really intense and sharp pickups like something Dave Mustaine from Megadeth or Dimebag Darrell from Pantera would use. I may be wrong about that. But I know that both of those guys play very precise individual clear notes that are still distorted as hell. I am sure that their talent and how they physically play the guitar has a lot to do with that too. So... it might have nothing to do with their magnets.


About lipstick pickups... I do not know of anywhere that I can buy the materials to make one of those. I also do not really even know how to make one of those. I saw a guy cut one open on YouTube, and it looked like just a strat style single coil that someone stuffed into a shiny tube, poured in a bunch of wax, and sealed it up. Do you know where i can find this kind of thing?
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

I'll post tomorrow. It's 226 am here :)
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

MichaelScottPerkins said:
What is a Filtertron exactly?
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It's the Gretsch version of a humbucker, they tend to have a brighter, jangle, livelier tone than a traditional humbucker. TV Jones is the main brand to look for a good variety of well made Filtertrons.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

I'd just go with trditional singles. Antiquity II Surfers (it is right in the name) are my first choice, followed by SSL-1s. Don't forget a wound 3rd string. And outboard reverb.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

Chistopher said:
It's the Gretsch version of a humbucker, they tend to have a brighter, jangle, livelier tone than a traditional humbucker. TV Jones is the main brand to look for a good variety of well made Filtertrons.
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I read about them just now. I can't find any solid instructions on how to make one. I did, however, find a few Filtertron kits out there. I can't really see exactly what the real difference is between a Filtertron and a standard humbucker. The face looks kinda steampunk and cool looking, but it still just looks like two coils, a fat magnet, and some lugs.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

If she likes a lot of distortion, I'd look at noise cancelling pickups like Kinmans (Hank Marvin set, maybe?) or Seymour Duncan's Stack Plus line. I like the STK-S6 Custom Stack Plus in the bridge (noiseless David Gilmour-style bridge tones), and STK-S4m Classic Stack Plus (like SSL-2, the flat polepiece version of SSL-1) in middle, with either STK-S4n or STK-S7 Vintage Hot Stack Plus in neck.

Or Filter'Trons. TV Jones is the most popular with a huge following of very critical artists. Malcolm Young, Brian Setzer for a couple of people totally associated with them... They are bright & twangy humbuckers, work great for AC/DC rhythm, rockabilly, and a surprising amount of other styles.

Kinman does make a noiseless P-90 that some say is head and shoulders above other P-90 stacks (competitors are generally regarded as flat, dull and/or dark sounding), but I've never used it, and am not aware of having heard it...

P-90s are a great choice, but for me, dealing with the hum under heavy distortion with them requires a good noise gate (I'd recommend something like a Rocktron Guitar Silencer, which combines noise gate, HUSH circuit and ability to put your noisy boosts in its loop, so they don't hiss when the guitar volume is low).

Same for Lipsticks, non-humcancelling single coils, or Tri-Sonics. I am less hum-tolerant than most, not a fan of singles clean due to hum a lot of the time, never mind under gain...

Another option is RW/RP for some of the pickups. Bridge normal, neck RW/RP will cancel hum in middle position, so at least there's an option to reduce noise...
 
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Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

There is no reason a P90 can't work for that, especially if you are making the pickups to suit.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

P-90s can certainly do metal, a few SDUGF members posted some great samples years back that were pretty amazing. But coping with the noise, particularly live under stage lighting or if there's poor grounding conditions, can be horrible.

Bill Lawrence L-90s can sound vaguely P-90ish, but wont convince P-90 connoisseurs. They are a dual rail humbucker. His L-500 series are well liked for brighter tones, and even lower noise than most humbuckers due to extra shielding. (L-500XL all over Pantera, also Extreme's Nuno Bettencourt, Buck Dharma of Blue Oyster Cult has been known to use a variety of Bill Lawrence pickups... I'd go with the Wylde pickups made by his family, rather than the business partner that retained his name when they split. Make a wider variety of his pickup designs.)
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

Mustain used/uses an alnico 5 for most of his career. Dimebag used ceramic in his L500xl and dimebucker. His gritty tone was mostly due to his amp...

Alnico 8 is very strong and with that in mind, a great alternative for ceramic, but not tonally. It's a lot fatter sounding than ceramic.

A filtertron is indeed like a humbucker but with some differences in how it's build up, giving it a super low inductance.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

For what you want, I'd go with a pair of low wind P-90's or maybe a hotter P90 in the bridge with a ceramic mag and a P90 in the neck with alnico rod mags.
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

orpheo said:
Mustain used/uses an alnico 5 for most of his career. Dimebag used ceramic in his L500xl and dimebucker. His gritty tone was mostly due to his amp...

Alnico 8 is very strong and with that in mind, a great alternative for ceramic, but not tonally. It's a lot fatter sounding than ceramic.

A filtertron is indeed like a humbucker but with some differences in how it's build up, giving it a super low inductance.
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Wow orpheo... Sounds like you really know your stuff! Thank you for sharing. One of these days, I really hope to have a lot more money so that I can build hundreds of pickups using all different kinds of magnets, wire gauges, pole pieces vs. lugs, P90s vs. strat style single coils, and I'd also love to have the cash to own or at least play guitars that have all of these different magnet types and such.

I am now completely convinced that I want to make a pair of Filtertrons.

I have found several Filtertron Pickup Kits like this one from Philadelphia Luthier Tools . Do you know where I might be able to read more about the actual specifics of winding one of these? I think I may go with Alnico 2 in the neck pickup and Alnico 5 in the bridge pickup.

I do not know, however, how many wraps I should shoot for per coil. I also do not know if there are any other considerations like, magnet polarity, wind direction, skatter patterns, winds per layer, etc. Do you know where I might be able to look for information this detailed?
 
Re: What kind of pickups would you guys recommend for crisp surf rock guitar?

MichaelScottPerkins said:
Wow orpheo... Sounds like you really know your stuff! Thank you for sharing. One of these days, I really hope to have a lot more money so that I can build hundreds of pickups using all different kinds of magnets, wire gauges, pole pieces vs. lugs, P90s vs. strat style single coils, and I'd also love to have the cash to own or at least play guitars that have all of these different magnet types and such.

I am now completely convinced that I want to make a pair of Filtertrons.

I have found several Filtertron Pickup Kits like this one from Philadelphia Luthier Tools . Do you know where I might be able to read more about the actual specifics of winding one of these? I think I may go with Alnico 2 in the neck pickup and Alnico 5 in the bridge pickup.

I do not know, however, how many wraps I should shoot for per coil. I also do not know if there are any other considerations like, magnet polarity, wind direction, skatter patterns, winds per layer, etc. Do you know where I might be able to look for information this detailed?
Click to expand...

Thanks :) . I just read a lot, tested a lot and fu**ed up a lot when taking pickups apart :D (and talked with people who know a lot more than I do because they're older than I am: thankfully I can retain information fairly well ;) )

Frankly, I have no experience myself with philadelphia luthier tools but from what I hear, they're fine folk. As for specs: NO IDEA :D I'd take some basic specs from TV Jones in terms of DC Resistance, find out the right wire gauge (but my gut tells me it's 42 awg) and then take it from there.

From what I came to understand, it is nowadays not easy to make a right filtertron: when they were made, they were made with cheap parts and that helped their tone. Now, parts are much better, metallurgy has come a very long way, so nowadays filtertrons almost always sound way too warm unless you do some weird stuff to it.

P.S.: I don't know where you're from but I'd get all my stuff (except for the winding machine) from AxesRUs in the UK. Those guys know their stuff and damned their pickups are some of the finest I've ever heard, hands down.
 
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