What speaker for best Fender sound?

[75lespaul]

I asked this a long time ago but never took action on it. Got a custom built 59 bassman amp with Mercury transformers and Sozo caps etc... exact replica circuit wise in a 2X12 tweed box. It's got two really generic Celestion speakers in it though and this amp pretty much needs to be dismantled to change the speakers, so I figured I'd give a shout.

I've got three spare speakers at the moment, two G12H30s and a V30. I've used this amp through a 4x12 with a V30 G12H30 mix and while it sounded great, it sounded more like a Marshall than a Fender. Just wondering if I can get this beast to sound like my 65 Champ, just louder. The Champ just has THAT tone to it and when I hit it with the strat, I get the coolest blues, rock tones ever. Especially when run in stereo with another amp.

Should I just use the two G12H30s and leave out the V30? I've read Lew's kudos for those speakers for Fenders. Maybe Jensens or Webers? I can hear that tone just wanting to come out of this amp, but I think the speakers and tubes are gonna need a changin'

Thanks Buds! :laugh2:

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Honestly, I know I'd prefer the mix of the Vin 30 and G12H30, since I love clean British tone the most, but it's clear that you're shooting for a purely American flavor now. Maybe you could do a mix of Jensen C12N and your Celestion G12H30, or go solely with Jensens.

http://www.jensenvintage.com/vin-home.htm

 

[ES350]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

alnico: Jensen P12N (well broken in), or a good Weber version of the late 50's P12N, ceramic: Weber 12F125 or 12F150. Like you say, the C's take it too far into Marshall land. That's the amp Fender never made; a 2x12" tweed w/ 6L6 duet and a long tail PI...more headroom than the 5E8A...try some Winged C 6L6GC or even 7581A for big Fender tone.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Honestly, I know I'd prefer the mix of the Vin 30 and G12H30, since I love clean British tone the most, but it's clear that you're shooting for a purely American flavor now. Maybe you could do a mix of Jensen C12N and your Celestion G12H30, or go solely with Jensens.

http://www.jensenvintage.com/vin-home.htm

That's my favorite setup. Got a 2x12 and 4x12 set up that way. This amp though, for the sound I want, that mix isn't cutting it.

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Hello!

Well the bassman was the basis for the early Marshall designs so it will have that vibe, especially the Plexi vibe when going into distortion. This will be more so with 12's instead of 10's. The trick may be as more (or as much) in the preamp tubes you select for the amp than the speakers. Start with a 12AY7 or other lower gain tubes in the first preamp tube for the channel here. A 12AU7 may be even more Fender. But, you will lose some distortion going that route.

The Weber version of the Old C12N would be one way to go. But some of the Emmy Patriot series could work for you. A darker American tone is the Cannibis Rex (one of my favorites).

 

[75lespaul]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Hello!

Well the bassman was the basis for the early Marshall designs so it will have that vibe, especially the Plexi vibe when going into distortion. This will be more so with 12's instead of 10's. The trick may be as more (or as much) in the preamp tubes you select for the amp than the speakers. Start with a 12AY7 or other lower gain tubes in the first preamp tube for the channel here. A 12AU7 may be even more Fender. But, you will lose some distortion going that route.

The Weber version of the Old C12N would be one way to go. But some of the Emmy Patriot series could work for you. A darker American tone is the Cannibis Rex (one of my favorites).

That's a great point about the tubes. Less distortion is actually what I want. The amp sounds great, but I've got others that do the same thing, so I don't need it. Hopefully I'm not trying to make a horse into a sheep, if you know what I mean. The Bassman CAN do that Fender thingy, right? Or would I be better off cutting my losses, selling this amp and getting something like an original tweed Harvard or something like that. Those are low wattage and don't have the sexy name like Bassman, twin etc, so they can be had around the $1000 or so range.

 

[flank]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

i've got a pair of eminence Texas Heats ready to go into my Twin Reverb once David Allen is done with it, i'll let you know how it sounds with those.

 

[Bludave]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Jensen P12R Or Jensen P12Q are the two speakers that were used in the narrow panel tweed twin. However a good oxford speaker may do the trick also. The pro reverb (BF) used Jensen C12N or Oxford 12L6

The sowman cabinets used 12: JBL D-120F. I think the question I would have is how much power is this amp pushing? That will have a big influence on the speaker you select.

I've read a lot of posts here about guys putting a vintage 30 in a DR. Although I do believe this will work well, I also feel it will take a lot of the " Fender " out of a good Fender amp.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

i've got a pair of eminence Texas Heats ready to go into my Twin Reverb once David Allen is done with it, i'll let you know how it sounds with those.

Cool! I look forward to it. Thank You.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

I asked this a long time ago but never took action on it. Got a custom built 59 bassman amp with Mercury transformers and Sozo caps etc... exact replica circuit wise in a 2X12 tweed box. It's got two really generic Celestion speakers in it though and this amp pretty much needs to be dismantled to change the speakers, so I figured I'd give a shout.

I've got three spare speakers at the moment, two G12H30s and a V30. I've used this amp through a 4x12 with a V30 G12H30 mix and while it sounded great, it sounded more like a Marshall than a Fender. Just wondering if I can get this beast to sound like my 65 Champ, just louder. The Champ just has THAT tone to it and when I hit it with the strat, I get the coolest blues, rock tones ever. Especially when run in stereo with another amp.

Should I just use the two G12H30s and leave out the V30? I've read Lew's kudos for those speakers for Fenders. Maybe Jensens or Webers? I can hear that tone just wanting to come out of this amp, but I think the speakers and tubes are gonna need a changin'

Thanks Buds! :laugh2:

I use Celestions in all of my Fenders with 12's. I like 'em better than anything else...especially those Italian made Jensen Reissues.

I use the Celestion alnico blue in my two '58 and '59 Fender Deluxes.

Celestion g12H30 in my two Fender Deluxe Reverbs.

And Celestion Vintage 30's in my two Matchless amps.

I don't think Celestions make a Fender sound like a overdriven Marshall...they're great for clean tones as well blues and rock tones.

I use 'em cause I think they have the best tone of any 12" speaker ever made...that's why I like Celestions.

The strongest 12" speaker Jensen made for Fender was the C12N used in the Pro Reverb and Fender Twin Reverb...but my Vintage 30's and G12H30's have much clearer tone than my old Jensen C12N's...

Lew

 

[75lespaul]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Jensen P12R Or Jensen P12Q are the two speakers that were used in the narrow panel tweed twin. However a good oxford speaker may do the trick also. The pro reverb (BF) used Jensen C12N or Oxford 12L6

The sowman cabinets used 12: JBL D-120F. I think the question I would have is how much power is this amp pushing? That will have a big influence on the speaker you select.

I've read a lot of posts here about guys putting a vintage 30 in a DR. Although I do believe this will work well, I also feel it will take a lot of the " Fender " out of a good Fender amp.

Well, it's a 50 watt amp and I'm definitely with you on the V30 thing. When I put it through the V30 and G12H30 it lost the Fender type tone and took on a Marshall tone.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Tweed Bassmans sound weird to me through two 12's. So much of that classic tweed Bassman tone is the tone of four 10" jensen P10R or P10Q speakers. So two 12's is just not the same tone at all...

That said, the Jensen P12Q or the Ted Weber version of the original blueframe Jensen P12Q might be nice.

For the vintage 50's tone, I'd stick with alnico speakers for a tweed Bassman...not ceramic.

That doesn't mean the ceramic would sound bad...just not authentic.

Through two alnico 12's like the P12Q, your amp should sound more than a little like a tweed Twin.

Lew

 

[75lespaul]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Tweed Bassmans sound weird to me through two 12's. So much of that classic tweed Bassman tone is the tone of four 10" jensen P10R or P10Q speakers. So two 12's is just not the same tone at all...

That said, the Jensen P12Q or the Ted Weber version of the original blueframe Jensen P12Q might be nice.

For the vintage 50's tone, I'd stick with alnico speakers for a tweed Bassman...not ceramic.

That doesn't mean the ceramic would sound bad...just not authentic.

Through two alnico 12's like the P12Q, your amp should sound more than a little like a tweed Twin.

Lew

Hi Lew--

Thanks for the input. Sorry it took me so long to thank you but I was at the NY Mets game today. And a wasted trip it was at that! I was thinking of maybe just getting a 2X10 cab from Earcandy for this amp because I like the smaller speakers in Fenders. I don't know why, my ears just do. That would just cost me money I'm not prepared to spend though. I was thinking of maybe just doing a new speaker baffle for 10s? That should be way cheaper I think. If not I'll go with the speakers you recommended and see how it goes after the breakin period. This amp is so full sounding and tubey, I just have to get it right. My main objective is to make it sound like my 65 Champ, just louder. Don't know if that's an animal I can cage, but if it sounds like a Fender, that will do it.

 

[ES350]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Gotta watch the rating for those alnicos---P12Q was original in '55-56 low power Twins but they changed over to P12N later (the Q's got blown). A healthy 5F6A is more powerful than the low power Twins, probably 40+ watts; consider a P12P or P12N model with the bigger 1.5" VC...especially if you want cleans.

 

[Stratman]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

I have a blackface bassman cabinet that has 4X10 Utah V10R9 speakers in it. (Not the original Jensen speakers, I have found out.)

That has clean Fender R&B tone, but there are better speaker selections out there. I have played this head with JBL D130 speakers (Still in cabinet) blackface Twin Reverb. Sound better, but starts to have that ink pick sharpness because of the 4-inch aluminum cap on those JBL's.

Played this head through a Marshall 4X12 plexi-style cabinet full sound, getting better. That cabinet has G12H speakers in it, which replaced the originals.

Finally, played through an open back 2X12 cabinet using G12H and V30. That has the best tone quality for this particular head. This does not mean, however, that this particular open cabinet is the best for other heads, e.g., Edana or my JTM-45. for those heads it's my Marshall 4X12 cabinet.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Maybe that's part of the problem. The two cabs I have with the Celestions are closed back. Could that make much of a difference as far as getting the Fender sound? Ted Weber is recommending ceramic speakers, Lew is recommending alnico. Which Guru do I listen to, LOL?

 

[75lespaul]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

:smokin:

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Well, you're not gonna get the "correct" tone out of a Bassman with 2 12's anyway so go for something different. The fender Bass Breaker (which was a 2x12 59 tweed bassman) came with Celestions...go for a more American speaker...as for the ceramic vs alnico I'd mix...one of each!

 

[75lespaul]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

Well, you're not gonna get the "correct" tone out of a Bassman with 2 12's anyway so go for something different. The fender Bass Breaker (which was a 2x12 59 tweed bassman) came with Celestions...go for a more American speaker...as for the ceramic vs alnico I'd mix...one of each!

I was wondering if that would work. You know how sometimes you're not supposed to mix things. Kinda like marriage. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry.

Okay, that sounds cool. I don't mind if it's not correct, I just want it to sound like a Fender, even if it's a mix of a few different tones. I'll probably get that mix, then fool around with the Celestions I've already got and see which combo sounds best.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: What speaker for best Fender sound?

I have a Tweed Super clone that Lew's Brother Bruce at Mission Amps built for me and I run a mix set of Webers in it...one low watt Alnico for crunch and one higher power ceramic for punch...great set up, I like it a lot!

I was wondering if that would work. You know how sometimes you're not supposed to mix things. Kinda like marriage. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Sorry.
Okay, that sounds cool. I don't mind if it's not correct, I just want it to sound like a Fender, even if it's a mix of a few different tones. I'll probably get that mix, then fool around with the Celestions I've already got and see which combo sounds best.