What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

Low_fidelity2100

Low_fidelity2100

New member
I recently got an older Fender Super 112 from the early 90's in a trade...after receiving it, and using it a bit, I've come to the conclusion that theres some thing wrong with it, because it is Much quieter than any dual 6L6 112 amp should be.
Cranked, I can clearly hear myself speaking over it. At full volume its a bit less loud than my Fender concert is at 4.5-5 on the volume. I've tried swapping all the tubes, changed out the speaker, etc...All the normal stuff...with no improvement. So I'm fairly sure something is wrong with the amp. But being as I don't know anywhere near as much about the inner workings of amps, as alot of other guys here...I figured I'd ask, an see if anyone could point me in the right direction of things to try, to resolve the volume issue.

Other than the volume weirdness, the amp actually sounds totally fine...Ya know, nothing great, typical red knob sorta sounds....Good cleans, meh dirt channel, etc...Which is what has me sorta confused, I'd think there'd be other weirdness happening...but there isn't really. I mean the Presence control is flaky and scratchy, and the reverb knob doesn't seem to control the reverb level at all (I'm thinking of just disconnecting it since I don't use verb anyways, but I'm not sure if thats safe or not?)...But other than that, it sounds as it should, just with very low volume.

Anyone have any idea what might be causing this? Things I should try, to resolve it? Any help is appreciated guys. thanks.
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

If it was a Peavey I'd say put a jumper cable into the effects loop. It wouldn't hurt to try it on a Fender.
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

Ok, tried the patch cable in the loop thing, made no difference. haha....Anyone else got any idea's?
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

Any chance your speaker is plugged into the extention jack instead of the internal speaker jack?- on old Fenders, it would really cut the volume down.
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

cronnin said:
It's a 60W amp with a ten tubes?
http://www.pssl.com/Fender-Super-Sonic-112-Black-Combo-Amplifier

Anyway, you should fell it hurting your ears when at full volume :)
Something definitely not working right.
Scratchy pots? Have you tried same model in some GC near buy?
Click to expand...

Nah, its not a Super Sonic, its a Super 112 from the early 90's. But yeah, it should be super loud, but its not. Can't really try out another one at gc, since its an older amp.

marvar said:
Any chance your speaker is plugged into the extention jack instead of the internal speaker jack?- on old Fenders, it would really cut the volume down.
Click to expand...

Not plugged into the Ext. Jack...In fact, this is one of the fender amps from the 90's with the speaker cable coming directly out of the chassis, no jack. Though there is an ext. speaker jack also.
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

As long as you don't have a hum issue or a buzzy distortion riding behind your clean tone, the problem is probably a minor one...problem is, there are a bunch of possibilities that could be causing this.

I would advise you to just bite the bullet and take it into a local tech and get it fixed. I see the occasional amp come into my shop that the owner has obviously tried to fix...and it generally takes a little longer to sort out the mess he/she made which, of course, makes the bill a little larger.
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

glassman said:
As long as you don't have a hum issue or a buzzy distortion riding behind your clean tone, the problem is probably a minor one...problem is, there are a bunch of possibilities that could be causing this.

I would advise you to just bite the bullet and take it into a local tech and get it fixed. I see the occasional amp come into my shop that the owner has obviously tried to fix...and it generally takes a little longer to sort out the mess he/she made which, of course, makes the bill a little larger.
Click to expand...

haha...Yeah I'm smart enough to know when I don't know anything. I'm not about to go randomly trying to "fix" the problem if its something internal, specially on a pcb amp, older ptp stuff I'm ok with, pcb's not so much...I just thought maybe there was some easy fix I might not have thought of myself. I'm sorta poor as hell, so taking an amp to a tech isn't something I generally do unless absolutely necessary. In this case it seems to be. haha.

EDIT: also, theres no bad hum but a small small amount of 60hz hum like alot of amps have...No buzzyness behind the clean tone, just a small normal dirt when I crank the amp.
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

What valves have you got in each of the sockets?

If a previous owner has substituted any of the 7025 or 12AX7 pre-amp valves with, say, a 12AU7 or 12AT7, you will experience a reduction in pre-amp gain.

Removing the Reverb send/capture loop from circuit should be a simple matter of pulling out the red and grey phono plugs from their respective sockets in the amp chassis.

Check that you have the correct Line Driver valve. (The last one before the power amp stage.) If this is kaput, you are not going to get much signal into the output valves.

Finally, check that the loudspeaker is of the correct impedance rating. It is possible that the original was blown and that an unsuitable replacement has been fitted instead. Overloading and underloading can be equally detrimental.
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

i´m reading this with much interest. i have a PRII that is the same way. sounds fine except lack of volume. there is no way i should be able to sit right underneath it and still have working ears.

picture a square room. now add the PRII to one of the corners. now add a drum set in that same corner.

iḿ able to play Joan Jett songs at full volume while i stomp the bass pedals on my drum.

my research has led me to tubes and / or speaker as the culprits. i know the speaker is just a toy speaker (put in by a previous owner) but iḿ new to Tube Knowledge, but The Forum Bros. have been a big help already in that area.

good luck with your situation. i too am very curious as to what the problem is.
 
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Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

If the OP is content that all of the valves and the loudspeaker are in good working order, the next step is to take a look inside the metal amp chassis. Inspect the capacitors and catalytics for nasty oozy stuff.

Remember to discharge them to ground first!
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

Here it says it has 2x 12AX7 in the preamp, and 12AT7 in PI by default.
But several people also say it is mighty loud for just a 60W tube amp :)

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Fender/Super+112/10/1

If you're comfortable with PtP you could also visually inspect elements by yourself disregarding its PCB design ?
Don't try to fix anything, don't touch anything, just look for suspicious things :)

Otherwise do as Glassman says. Sooner you take it to an amp tech, less damage it will be :)
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

Funkfingers said:
What valves have you got in each of the sockets?

If a previous owner has substituted any of the 7025 or 12AX7 pre-amp valves with, say, a 12AU7 or 12AT7, you will experience a reduction in pre-amp gain.

Removing the Reverb send/capture loop from circuit should be a simple matter of pulling out the red and grey phono plugs from their respective sockets in the amp chassis.

Check that you have the correct Line Driver valve. (The last one before the power amp stage.) If this is kaput, you are not going to get much signal into the output valves.

Finally, check that the loudspeaker is of the correct impedance rating. It is possible that the original was blown and that an unsuitable replacement has been fitted instead. Overloading and underloading can be equally detrimental.
Click to expand...

Already checked all the tubes, and subbed in known good ones (pulled from other amps where they function properly), no difference...Put in a higher efficiency speaker, with the correct (8 ohm) rating, no difference....

post toastie said:
i´m reading this with much interest. i have a PRII that is the same way. sounds fine except lack of volume. there is no way i should be able to sit right underneath it and still have working ears.

picture a square room. now add the PRII to one of the corners. now add a drum set in that same corner.

iḿ able to play Joan Jett songs at full volume while i stomp the bass pedals on my drum.

my research has led me to tubes and / or speaker as the culprits. i know the speaker is just a toy speaker (put in by a previous owner) but iḿ new to Tube Knowledge, but The Forum Bros. have been a big help already in that area.

good luck with your situation. i too am very curious as to what the problem is.
Click to expand...

Those PRII's are bad ass amps. My Concert (80's rivera designed model) is from the same series. Totally amazing amps for the money. Hope you get yours working properly.

Funkfingers said:
If the OP is content that all of the valves and the loudspeaker are in good working order, the next step is to take a look inside the metal amp chassis. Inspect the capacitors and catalytics for nasty oozy stuff.

Remember to discharge them to ground first!
Click to expand...

I already pulled the chassis to take a look around. The PCB is mounted in such a way that all the components are on the bottom of the board, and the board is screwed into the chassis....So without removing the screws and flipping the board, its hard to see whether anything is visually weird....And being as I'm not confident in my ability to pull/flip the board without messing something else up, I'm not planning to do that. haha.

cronnin said:
Here it says it has 2x 12AX7 in the preamp, and 12AT7 in PI by default.
But several people also say it is mighty loud for just a 60W tube amp :)

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Fender/Super+112/10/1

If you're comfortable with PtP you could also visually inspect elements by yourself disregarding its PCB design ?
Don't try to fix anything, don't touch anything, just look for suspicious things :)

Otherwise do as Glassman says. Sooner you take it to an amp tech, less damage it will be :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm thinking a trip to a local tech is about the only way to go....Now to try and find a local tech that doesn't suck, haha.....Anyone know any good amp techs in Rockford IL?
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

Such a lovely small town. What's this for? Does it work?
vfiles9166.jpg
 
Re: What would cause an amp to be much quieter than it should be?

That came out in search for RF, IL. Dunno. Doesn't matter. At first I thought it was some sort of local subway :)


Anyway, concerning amp power I know that you can pull out a pair of tubes to get it a bit down.
But does anyone know what would happen if I pull ALL the power tubes out and try to run the amp like that?
 
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