Whats with pickups using ceramic boosters?

[Ascension]

Kiesel in particular has several of their high gain pickups with boosters. To me they all sound like utter crap. This is a shame as Kiesel has a number of more traditional pickups that are very very good. However the in thing there are all these new shrill and harsh sounding thangies with the boosters. What gives with this concept?

 

[bigcupholder]

Don't the invader and black winter have booster magnets too? No one has ever said the invader is shrill

I don't think you can blame the magnets for the kiesel lithium being shrill. It's likely the non-metal baseplate and short screws.

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[eclecticsynergy]

Ceramic generally needs a heavier wind than alnico in order not to sound bright and/or brittle.
I feel this principle applies to ceramic spacers as well as a ceramic primary bar.

 

[Aceman]

I have no idea what a "Ceramic booster" is. Please explain.

 

[Demanic]

The post above yours explains it: ceramic spacer magnets.

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[Ascension]

Don't the invader and black winter have booster magnets too? No one has ever said the invader is shrill

I don't think you can blame the magnets for the kiesel lithium being shrill. It's likely the non-metal baseplate and short screws.

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Knew about the non metal baseplate but not the short screws. Yep hate the Lithum in a burn with fire kinda way but it's not the only pickup they have that sounds shrill and bland and is running the boosters. it's a shame as several of the Alico mag more conventional design Kiesel pickups are really good. M12SD, Parallax , Beryllium, Holdsworth and the Gamballi humbuckers will all surprise you if you haven't heard them. As will the Marks singles and Johnny Hiland singles.

 

[Ascension]

I have no idea what a "Ceramic booster" is. Please explain.

Trying to figure that out myself as don't have a clue on the design. Just know the pickups I have heard so far with them are NOT my thing!

 

[Rex_Rocker]

The Black Winter and the 500T have them, and I love them both!

The Black Winter *can* be shrill, though.

I don't think it has to do with the helper magnets, though. That's just how that pickup is voiced. Burstbuckers can be way harsher, and those haven't got any ceramic in them. In fact, I think most if not all PAF-types tend to be brighter.

 

[frankfalbo]

Trying to figure that out myself as don't have a clue on the design. Just know the pickups I have heard so far with them are NOT my thing!

“Booster” just seems to be a phrase Kiesel is using, but as said above there are many pickups from old Dirty Fingers to some BKP, the Invader, Black Winter, etc.

Calling it a booster only tells half the story, it radically changes the magnetic circuit shape and return path. The result is a bit of harshness from a stronger, narrower focus. If you wind the pickup with that in mind, the pickup doesn’t have to be harsh, but often they are. And it lends itself to being aggressive under heavier distortion but sounding harsh if played clean.

 

[Aceman]

So, ceramics with extra or large magnets...that's all?

 

[Demanic]

So, ceramics with extra or large magnets...that's all?

No, ceramic spacer magnets added to the main magnet which can be either ceramic or AlNiCo.

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[Ascension]

“Booster” just seems to be a phrase Kiesel is using, but as said above there are many pickups from old Dirty Fingers to some BKP, the Invader, Black Winter, etc.

Calling it a booster only tells half the story, it radically changes the magnetic circuit shape and return path. The result is a bit of harshness from a stronger, narrower focus. If you wind the pickup with that in mind, the pickup doesn’t have to be harsh, but often they are. And it lends itself to being aggressive under heavier distortion but sounding harsh if played clean.

Thanks for that Frank. The characteristics of this you talk of are exactly what I have experienced with the Kiesel pickups. They just released a new pickup builder on the web site a couple weeks ago with full specs on the newer pickups. Before that no real info was available on them. When the builder dropped I suddenly saw that their pickups I really don't like all had those boosters and was wondering what they were.
In particular the way those pickups won't really clean up or open up with touch or the guitar volume like others I have used is a real problem for me.
REALLY like some of their more traditional designs though. The Beryllium is one example and have a full set in one guitar and a bridge in another. Found those were plain enamel at around 8K ( 8.8 bridge and 8.2 neck) and have Alnico II mags.

 

[hamerfan]

I changed one of the ceramic side magnets in a 500T to a wooden spacer. Now it sounds similar to a Duncan Distortion.
You just need a round or square wood stick with a diameter of 5 mm - a skewer, chopstick or anything alike.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Personally I feel alnico spacers work well to boost output a bit without adding that ceramic harshness.
These are not entirely neutral - they do reshape the tone somewhat, but you can choose your flavor of alnico.

 

[Demanic]

Personally I feel alnico spacers work well to boost output a bit without adding that ceramic harshness.
These are not entirely neutral - they do reshape the tone somewhat, but you can choose your flavor of alnico.

I'd rather go with AlNiCo main magnet and ceramic boosters.

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[Seashore]

Questions about swapping out those flanker (spacer, booster) magnets, say if you wanted to switch something from ceramic to alnico - if you just swap one or two of the magnets, do you risk demagnetizing the whole assembly over time? Is it best to demagnetize them, put them together, and remagnetize them as a group? Or is that unnecessary as long as they're oriented correctly?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Pretty sure a ceramic bar mag could weaken alnico spacers over time. How fast, I have no idea.
They're separated by the slugs/screws but they are repelling each other and ceramics are powerful.
I believe weak alnicos like A2 & A3 may degauss more easily than stronger ones like A8 or A5.

Same principle applies with ceramic spacers and an alnico bar, though spacers would have significantly lower field strength than a full size bar.
I only ever used alnico spacers with A5 as the primary mag, so I can't speak to whether or how fast a ceramic bar would degauss them.

Ceramics can't really be degaussed so you don't need to worry about those, and swapping one or both spacers shouldn't affect a main magnet.
Always avoid bringing any alnico into direct contact with a ceramic. And when storing magnets, keep ceramics well separated from alnicos.
Various grades of alnico can be stored stuck together, but make sure none are repelling each other since that can affect their field strength.

The only regular production designs I've seen to mix ceramic & alnico have used ceramic boosters with an alnico primary.
Not sure whether that was done out of practical necessity or simply for tone.

 

[hamerfan]

I have never heard of alnico spacers. Alnico in a spacer shape like 4 X 4 mm would not hold charge. Therefore I know only of ceramic side magnets as magnetic spacers.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I have never heard of alnico spacers. Alnico in a spacer shape like 4 X 4 mm would not hold charge. Therefore I know only of ceramic side magnets as magnetic spacers.

Alnico spacers do exist, and A2 spacers work fine in an A5 humbucker, though I guess they could weaken in the long run.
I'm confident A5 spacers would work in an A2 pickup as well, with less likelihood of degaussing over time.

Whether or not they could hold their charge next to a ceramic primary mag is another question, though.
They might weaken pretty quickly near that strong a field.

 

[hamerfan]

I learned that alnico poles should have longer distance from each other than the thickness of the magnets is. Otherwise it doesn't hold charge.