Which duncan PAF for string separation and clarity?

[cherryblonde]

Looking for opinions on which Duncan has great string separation and detail with gain. I’ve been playing my SG std alot lately which has a gibson 490r neck and 57 classic plus bridge. This guitar was on break for me a while but I’m absolutely loving it again. Even with high gain, I strum a chord and hear every note clearly, in all pickup positions. I always had a feeling the Seth Lovers were probably closest to the 57s. I’ve always wanted to get those or antiquities.

I have more low output Dimarzio humbuckers than Duncans currently. They’re great but theyre all alnico 5 and sometimes I don’t hear the same string separation as on the gibsons in my SG. I know the old 57, Seth, Antiquity comparison has been posted a zillion times but want some fresh opinions, mainly on the detail and clarity with gain. For duncans, I currently Have a custom custom, JB, antiquity JB and alnico 2 pro in different guitars. I can say, the alnico 2 pro in the neck of my PRS is just ok to me, it’s getting replaced with a pearly gates. It needs a bit more hi mids like the gibsons have. Had a bridge model in it too but found it thin. I’d try the recommended pickups in a les paul, prs custom 24, possibly charvel too. I know I could just get 57s again but damn they’re pricey more than ever, especially 4 conductor if needed for some guitars.

 

[Masta' C]

Hard to beat the Pearly Gates set, IMO

 

[IMENATOR]

I have almost no experience with PAF but something I learned is to improve string separation and clarity of humbuckers is to cut some low end. Pickups with less low end help, adding a high pass filter in the guitar helps, using a graph eq pedal in front of the amp helps, using an overdrive that cuts low helps (tubescreamer and SD-1 are famous for this).

I was using the JB and using the Boss GE-7 to cut some lows made a night-day difference. Of course, the JB does not sound like a PAF but maybe you can eq cut some low from your current PAF pickups and decided if that was good enough before trying a new pickup.


Joe Gore's demo of a low cut tone knob mod.

 

[jeremy]

the duncan jazz set is amazing for clarity. the full shred set is good if you want a bit hotter bridge pup but with lots of clarity. a screamin demon isnt as hot as you think and is also very clear

 

[SFW]

I like the Antiquity, Pearly Gates and 59 with an A2 mag.

 

[skelt101]

I agree with jeremy in that the first thing that came to mind when string seperation and clarity were mentioned was Jazz set. Not too sure how PAF they are, but the output is vintage.

 

[Mincer]

Yeah, my pick is the PG and the 59 set. If you start to get hotter than those, they don't 'feel' like a PAF.

 

[jeremy]

I agree with jeremy in that the first thing that came to mind when string seperation and clarity were mentioned was Jazz set. Not too sure how PAF they are, but the output is vintage.

thats very true. i wouldnt call a jazz or fs paf like, though with the jazz others do. they are paf type output but more modern voiced, hence they have better string definition. i think they sound great and usually play seths, 59s, antiquities, or other paf type pups

 

[nienturi]

For a clear neck position i'm in love with Seth Lovers. Clear yet warm. P.Gates is also an excellent neck hb and several guitars of mine has PG on neck but even if not frequently (depending on the guitar itself) some minor improvements may be needed like this;

DSC04318 by Baris Sahin, on Flickr

Not Duncans and not paf but, for a clear neck sound, i like humbucker from hell, bluesbucker, super 2 (if there is a powerful hb on the bridge) from dimarzio and Lollars El Rayo with 3,5K winding.

 

[Mincer]

The Antiquity and Seth Lovers are exceptionally clear, but can be a problem if you use a lot of preamp gain and high volume. Being non-potted, they might squeal. But that is what makes them exceptional, dynamic sets.

 

[freefrog]

In the Duncan line, +1 about PG's, Seth's, Ant's... I wouldn't ditch the SH1 either, especially a vintage "Seymourized" SH1. These oldies are frail but mine have a great "clarity and strings separation" to my ears.

Now, I wouldn't expect a same model of PU's to give the same benefits in a LP, a PRS and a Charvel: when I want similar tones from instruments with such different scales, materials and structures, I paradoxically have to use noticeably different pickups and wiring strategies. What sounds transparent and open in a SG might become cluttered by low mids in a LP, IME...

Regarding passive BT controls : they give spectacular results so I totally understand why some players love them. Let's just keep in mind how they affect the gain: it can be heard in the vid published by Joe Gore, from 1:41 (and I wouldn't recommend a passive BT control to someone who uses a Fuzz Face : it would make this pedal hardly useable because of the whole chain created by both circuits).

Depending on the PUs, guitar and amp involved, rising the screw poles way above the bobbins might help when it comes to clarity and strings separation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqFDs4wcOes&t=70s

This clear and detailed character is also easier to obtain from pickup with rich harmonics and/or a narrow / high pitched resonant peak.

Hence the usual recipes:
-low inductance obtainable by various means and generally present in low DCR humbuckers like 4k Filter'Tron's or their variations (but a JB in parallel would exhibit comparable qualities),
-low inner capacitance (generally found in hand wound humbuckers so I can't evoke a Duncan HB here),

Etc. I refrain to keep rambling about pots resistance, cable capacitance, iron or carbon contents in magnetic parts and so on.

Finally and FWIW: to me, a perceived lack of strings separation with DiMarzio might be attributed to things like parasitic capacitance and eddy currents more than to A5. Stray capacitance can be corrected to some extent but not cancelled. Eddy currents, conversely, can be diminished : instead of the stock brass baseplate, a BP made of fiber or plastic like those of Bill Lawrence PU's would be something to try there.

I stop there. Sigh of relief from the few members who will have read this. ;-)

 

[magillver]

Big fan of the Benedetto A6...

 

[Clint 55]

^ That pup is mega clear. It's marketed as jazz but I think anyone who is looking for tightness and clarity would like it. Sounds like a tighter Jazz to me.

 

[freefrog]

If I was facetious, I'd recommend real P.A.F.'s - rather than "PAF" without dots : it's a Dimarzio trademark! ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sACF5jQighY&t=109s

https://youtu.be/l8VnYBb6JVw?t=1473

I liked how the old test below described the tone of a real old one and characterized copies by comparison, since it matched my own subjective experience:

https://www.vintageguitar.com/3602/vg-paf-shoot-out-2005/


OFF TOPIC PARENTHESIS / SIDE NOTE :

It's interesting to see how PA.F. reference tones are often defined nowadays by aftermarket copies rather than by the old pickups themselves, surprisingly bright and open in some cases... For instance, my favorite vintage Gibson HB is an Early Pat., IOW still a P.A.F. by its materials and construction, and seems closer IME to a SH2/Jazz than to most "PAF" labelled clones.

It's often forgotten that back in the days, rock stars were often playing their guitars through long and/or coily cables, warming the tone because of a high stray capacitance...

Early Santana PRS models even include a "sweet switch" to emulate this effect through his modern rig (and users now ask "Bring back the sweet switch" without realizing that 50 or 100' of cable would make them sound the same).

The use of shorter cables and wireless transmitters + the influence of hi-gain PU's pushed makers to "embed" more of the sonic warmth in PAFish pickups themselves and it led to forget how trebly a real P.A.F. can actually be:

https://youtu.be/fMj_HnvJKXk?t=10


Not saying that bright is better, BTW, since it can obviously be painful. I've all kinds of humbuckers in my own guitars, from super bright to hotn' dark, and I love them all. To some extent, it's even a good thing to have not to rely on external factors to obtain a warm tone from "P.A.F. clones". But reality as I understand it seemed paradoxical enough to me to inspire this boring rambling. ;-)

 

[Artie]

I also love the Jazz set, especially with 250k pots. The Duncan Psyclone Humbucker set deserves mention too. Same ballpark sound as the Jazz's.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

IMO one thing that helps with definition in low-output humbuckers is coil offset.
AFAIK nearly all Duncan humbuckers are symmetrical winds.
That adds a certain fullness and sweetness to a relatively light wind.
But a little bit of offset opens up the highs more; that helps a lot with definition.

Not sure, but I suspect a tiny bit of coil offset is what gives the Seth Lovers extra clarity compared to their siblings.
Seths tend to hum just a tad more than 59s and I figure that's probably why.

Nearly all the original PAFs have some coil offset and in especially bright-sounding examples it can be pretty substantial.
As we now know, back then the coils weren't wound to any specific number of turns.
Bobbins were just wound "until they looked full," - this according to Seth Lover himself.
The coils were paired up totally at random to make humbuckers.
That's how real PAFs can vary so much from one to another.

They're all pretty crisp sounding, but the ones closer to a symmetrical wind are a little warmer & sweeter than the average.
This has been the general concensus among many who have a lot of experience dissecting/rewinding genuine PAFs.

 

[JB6464]

I like the unpotted 59's with the rough cast A5 magnet for my PAF vibe.

 

[Mincer]

I like the unpotted 59's with the rough cast A5 magnet for my PAF vibe.

I bet these are really nice.

 

[Aceman]

For a PAF, I might try an A3 in a 59

But...

Jazz
Fullshred
59
PG

Those would be my call for what you want.

Get your dirt from the amp, not the pickup.

 

[GuitarStv]

I think the '59 is pretty good for string separation. More so than the antiquity or seth for sure (both of which are great pickups, but with a warm middy everything blending together kinda thing going on).