Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

[Dave Locher]

I asked Eminence but have not heard back yet.

Short version: I am looking for an 8-ohm, 12" Eminence speaker that sounds a lot like the 1979 Celestion G12-65 speaker that I foolishly sold. Not a "clone," just the same sonic ballpark. Smoother, warmer, and/or darker would be fine as long as it can handle a lot of palm-muted "chunka chunka" without flubbing out.

I did a Google search on this topic but it was a lot of "I heard that..." and very little "In my first-hand experience..."

Long version: I totally wore out a pair of original G12-65s that I owned since around 1987 or so. I sold them and bought new speakers because I did not know then (d'oh!) there is a good speaker re-coning business an hour from where I live.
Originally I bought an Eminence Tonker because I was only going to run one speaker and it handles 150 watts. (My head is 120.) Then I suddenly had more money to spend so I bought a Tonkerlite. Eventually I realized the Tonker emphasized some frequency that annoys me and hurts my ears AND it would bottom out if I palm-muted an E chord so I sold it.
I then bought a WGS ET-65. LOVED that one, but got talked into buying a WGS Veteran 30 to pair with it. I never gelled with the Vet 30. It had too much honky midrange spike for me and I finally pulled it back out last week and dropped the Tonkerlite back in.

The combo of WGS ET65 + Eminence Tonkerlite sounds good but the Tonkerlite is bright for my taste. It doesn't annoy like the regular Tonker did and it doesn't bottom out when I chug, it's just a bit icepicky for my ears.

I realize I can just buy another WGS ET65 but I would like to get something that compliments it rather than another one of the exact same speaker. So I'm looking back to Eminence because the Tonker was close to what I want. It was smoother and maybe tighter than the ET65 is, and I want that. The problem is that weird high or high-mid frequency emphasis I didn't like and the farting out on the chunka chunka. I'm seeking the good qualities of the Tonker without the bad.

So...smooth, warm, dark, tight, without the weird honky mid-range spike of the Veteran 30 and without the problems of the Tonker.

Or should I just pony up the $150 for a Celestion "Heritage" series?

 

[newking70]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

they're not real rare, just buy an old one....or look in to scumback speakers.....jim knows his stuff.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

i like all the emis ive tried but yeah, email scumback

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

they're not real rare, just buy an old one....or look in to scumback speakers.....jim knows his stuff.

But yeah, they really are rare now, and very expensive..sure you can buy em, but in my estimation many/most for sale now are past their prime, or WAy past their prime , and have issues, and are being dumped by the seller for that very reason. Good luck finding xcellent condition ones at all, let alone for their exorbitant price these fetch nowadays. Also, contrary to popular belief, Scumback doesn't do late 70's/ early 80's G12-65's. Only recreations of the early Pre Rola Celestions form the late 60's. Must be a lot of the confusion is due to the fact that Scumbacks clones are rated at different Watts RMS including 65 watts RMS and 75 watts RMs. I was LMFAO at a forum thread where everyone was saying the SCumback G12-65 , which doesnt exist, sounded so much like a real old G12-65..power of persuasion no doubt, and also most people don't know WTF they are talking about regarding vintage speakers!

If you want a reissue G12-65, buy a Celestion G12-65 reissue , but it won't sound near as good as the real deal old Celestion G12-65's, well , at least not with a good old tube amp like the JCM800.

One note, I was surprised Jim did a G12M clone of sorts- the J55PVC(?). Its well known amongst speaker junkies that Jim places little stock in the new Celestion "so called" reissues of the Holy Grail G12M mid 60's G12m 20 watt speaker. ..sside from that, man, I'd love a quad of his Vox Alnico Silver Bell replicas!

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

they're not real rare, just buy an old one....or look in to scumback speakers.....jim knows his stuff.

I thought Jim passed away and that is why Scumback was folded into Weber, but I could be mistaken. (Anyone know the veracity of this?)

I owned a set of Scumbacks and discovered rather quickly that I was really looking for an Alnico speaker. Ended up with Weber.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

I'd suggest looking into a Splawn Small Block speaker ....basically a 55W Greenback. Made by Eminence.
https://www.sagepayments.net/eftcart/products.asp?M_id=486689632478

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

I don't think there is an Eminence that really tries to come close. Here's a quote from a thread on the Marshall forum regarding alternatives:

I forgot to mention, I also have/had both a Weber and WGS clones. The Weber was excellent, maybe a more articulate version of my 1979 set. The WGS didn't really sound like a G12-65 at all. It was kind of nondescript and reminded me chinese of G12-75s.

Also keep in mine 65's went through changes so they do sound a bit different from year to year. Here's a quote from the same guy who owns multiple versions:

First I gotta say, some cabs full of g12-65s are pure ambrosia, others are merely terrific. I'm curious what the 65 lovers thoughts are about how the sound changed from say 79-83. If you have one in a 4x12 with 3 other mixed speakers you really aren't hearing the 65 due to its low efficiency. I'm more interested in the folks with sets that aged together.

I have 3 matched quads all in cabinets. I also have 3 more singles. Even though the dates span a couple months on some quads, I am sure each set grew up together. I will, for ease of labeling, name the quads 79, 80, 83.

Set 79 has standard white paper labels. 80 has Marshall brand labels. 83 is paper again. The 83 set sounds very, very much like vintage greenbacks to my ears. I hear greenbacks as slightly mid scooped with a bit of sizzle on top. My 79 set is my favorite, it curbs the sizzle while still managing chimey highs. The lows are tight, maybe lacking to some people. The mids are smooth, with no hump. The 80 set is much like the 79 set but with a bigger bottom while still tight. I thought it was the B cab it was in, but I moved them to an A cab and the same thing.

Here's a funny thing, I have a single 83 in my DSL combo and its exactly like the 79 set.

I also have a single from 81 that has the exact same celestion label as the white paper but the label is a silver metallic looking base.

All of the cones have the same number.

A cab loaded with 65's is still near the top of my list.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

This is all so darn overwhelming! Thank you all for the info.
I did not know the speakers I had were some mythical holy grail until after I sold them. Honestly, in the original 4x12 cab they were too scooped and "metal" for my taste, but when I put two of them into a 2x12 cabinet they suddenly sounded warm and clear but kept the tightness. It was a perfect combo for me. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and start buying speakers one at a time until I find one I really love.

p.s. I agree with the quote above about the WGS ET65. It is a good sounding speaker but it does not sound like my 1979 G12-65 speakers did. Not as tight, not as warm, and more fizzy. I do like it a lot, I just would not consider it a "clone" of the vintage Celestions.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

I read somewhere that there are about 40 slightly different sounding versions of the G12-65. Also read a thread or an article a few years ago about Robin Ford's quest for just the right replacement 65. It was a journey.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

I read somewhere that there are about 40 slightly different sounding versions of the G12-65. Also read a thread or an article a few years ago about Robin Ford's quest for just the right replacement 65. It was a journey.

Did he listen to about ten thousand YouTube clips? That's where I am at right now.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

I thought Jim passed away and that is why Scumback was folded into Weber, but I could be mistaken. (Anyone know the veracity of this?)

I owned a set of Scumbacks and discovered rather quickly that I was really looking for an Alnico speaker. Ended up with Weber.

LOL No.

Weber used to make Scumbacks to his design but the quality started to slip massively. Being that his brand was on the speakers and thus his name was on the line Jim pulled everything in-house. He sources everything himself and assembles, tests, and breaks-in everything in-house.

Jim's actually pretty active over at TGP. Real nice guy and always willing to help. He'll even suggest other speakers if his speakers happen to not do what you want. I wish I had money to give him because his speakers do what I want.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

I like WGS but I don't think a single one is a "clone". I know for sure that several are just supposed to be based on other speakers (mostly Celestions) but not clones. Not sure if that's because they know they cant do a clone or they just didn't want to.

At any rate OP, you probably don't want a Vintage 30

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

LOL No.

Weber used to make Scumbacks to his design but the quality started to slip massively. Being that his brand was on the speakers and thus his name was on the line Jim pulled everything in-house. He sources everything himself and assembles, tests, and breaks-in everything in-house.

Jim's actually pretty active over at TGP. Real nice guy and always willing to help. He'll even suggest other speakers if his speakers happen to not do what you want. I wish I had money to give him because his speakers do what I want.

That is great to hear; thanks for clarifying!

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Which Eminence speaker is closest to a real, vintage Celestion G12-65?

I like WGS but I don't think a single one is a "clone". I know for sure that several are just supposed to be based on other speakers (mostly Celestions) but not clones. Not sure if that's because they know they cant do a clone or they just didn't want to.

At any rate OP, you probably don't want a Vintage 30

Considering that they actually source the same cones that Celestion uses (since Celestion doesn't actually manufacture their own cones) and they get their magnets from the same Chinese factory I think it's a conscious decision to voice them a bit different.