Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

[bazie]

Hi all,
Which of two models for Epiphone Nighthawk Custom Reissue (SH-1 or SH-4) would you recommend? How does their sound compare to the stock NHT pickup?
I like to play rock, but sometimes Gary Moore-like blues, and, on the other hand, hard rock and metal. I need a pickup that has more treble response than stock, and plays good clean and with overdrive. It should cooperate well with stock NSX middle single coil, as it is hard to replace for mechanical reasons. I have already changed the NHR mini humbucker to Entwistle HV-M which has similar magnet type and DCR to SM-3. I'd like the guitar to be versatile, so that the character of neck and bridge pickups can be different, as they won't play together at the same time (pickup switch doesn't allow for this).
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Scott Marceau]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

I'd personally go with the JB version. It's a versatile pickup and can handle any style of music. I have one in my guitar right now!

 

[freefrog]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

If that helps: I've measured the stock bridge pickup @ 15.23k on a Gibson Nighthawk. The closest to this value is the slanted SH4. A custom SH1 would sound good too, but not necessarily with the stock wiring options (which split the bridge PU in 2d position if memory serves me).

 

[bazie]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

I'd personally go with the JB version. It's a versatile pickup and can handle any style of music. I have one in my guitar right now!

Thanks, I also think of SH-4 (JB) rather than SH-1, but I wanted to hear some opinions of those who already use these pickups.

 

[bazie]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

A custom SH1 would sound good too, but not necessarily with the stock wiring options (which split the bridge PU in 2d position if memory serves me).

In Epiphone Nighthawk you can use any humbucker in humbucker or split mode, depending on tone push-pull position. In both modes they can play alone or with center single coil. That's why I want bridge humbucker to play well with the single but not necessary with neck humbucker.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

In Epiphone Nighthawk you can use any humbucker in humbucker or split mode, depending on tone push-pull position. In both modes they can play alone or with center single coil. That's why I want bridge humbucker to play well with the single but not necessary with neck humbucker.

I wasn't quite remembering how the Epi stock wiring works, so I've wrote "2d position" because it could be applied to the PU selector as well as to the push pull pot. : private:

FWIW, the wiring for 3 PU Gibson Nighthawk is extremely interesting. It's based on a super switch working a bit like a Fender/Gibson selector:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...px-Gibson_Nighthawk_Pickup_Selector_Guide.png

 

[bazie]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

FWIW, the wiring for 3 PU Gibson Nighthawk is extremely interesting. It's based on a super switch working a bit like a Fender/Gibson selector

In Epiphone it is different - you get neck, neck+middle, middle, middle+bridge, bridge by 5-way Fender-like switch. Additionally, depending on tone push-pull position, bridge and neck work as humbuckers or as single coils. Here's the official diagram from Epiphone:
http://images.epiphone.com.s3.amazonaws.com/Media/Manuals/NithwkPUControl_Addn.jpg

 

[blueman335]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

Thanks, I also think of SH-4 (JB) rather than SH-1, but I wanted to hear some opinions of those who already use these pickups.

I don't see a JB as a good fit for a Nighthawk, at least for the blues and classic rock I play. I'd go with a Custom 5 myself (SH-14).

 

[elelpe]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

I don't see a JB as a good fit for a Nighthawk, at least for the blues and classic rock I play. I'd go with a Custom 5 myself (SH-14).

For a Nighthawk? Idk if it's available. Do you mean Custom Shop route?

 

[freefrog]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

In Epiphone it is different - you get neck, neck+middle, middle, middle+bridge, bridge by 5-way Fender-like switch. Additionally, depending on tone push-pull position, bridge and neck work as humbuckers or as single coils. Here's the official diagram from Epiphone:
http://images.epiphone.com.s3.amazonaws.com/Media/Manuals/NithwkPUControl_Addn.jpg

Yep, I know that Epi did it differently. I was just promoting the wiring of the Gibson Nighthawk because I had found it to be effective and useful when I had refreshed a Gibson Nighthawk for a friend (I've also borrowed an Epi Nighthawk to my music shop a few months ago but I've forgotten how the switch worked exactly in the meantime: too much guitars tried, not enough memory cells in my brain).

To complete what I said :

-a Gibson Nighthawk slanted bridge PU measures 15,2k with an inductance of 6,1H.
-the last SH4 that I've measured had an inductance of 6.7H.
-a SH1b has an inductance of 4,8H: that's why, once splitted, it would sound thinner than the two models named above.
FWIW.

 

[bazie]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

I don't see a JB as a good fit for a Nighthawk, at least for the blues and classic rock I play. I'd go with a Custom 5 myself (SH-14).

I'm afraid there must be a special slanted humbucker for Epiphone Nighthawk Custom Reissue. Maybe a typical shape humbucker would fit in for other Nighthawks, e.g. Gibsons (there were few versions).

 

[bazie]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

Yep, I know that Epi did it differently. I was just promoting the wiring of the Gibson Nighthawk because I had found it to be effective and useful

It seems there are more interesting combinations I think, but Epi's version is probably easier to learn and to wire. Maybe Gibson's version would require a different, non-standard 5-way switch, I don't know.

-a Gibson Nighthawk slanted bridge PU measures 15,2k with an inductance of 6,1H.
-the last SH4 that I've measured had an inductance of 6.7H.
-a SH1b has an inductance of 4,8H: that's why, once splitted, it would sound thinner than the two models named above.

So, the SH-4 would be similar to stock, at least in terms of DCR and inductance (in my Epi Nighthawk, the stock bridge humbucker measures DCR of 16.05 kOhm and 7.96 kOhm when split). I don't know how to measure inductance, it's probably not that easy.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

It seems there are more interesting combinations I think, but Epi's version is probably easier to learn and to wire. Maybe Gibson's version would require a different, non-standard 5-way switch, I don't know.

Yes, it requires a "super-switch".

So, the SH-4 would be similar to stock, at least in terms of DCR and inductance (in my Epi Nighthawk, the stock bridge humbucker measures DCR of 16.05 kOhm and 7.96 kOhm when split). I don't know how to measure inductance, it's probably not that easy.

It's done thx to an inductance meter (LOL).

Seriously: no, it's not easy to measure. But it's extremely useful to guess the "voicing" of a PU. It's generally proportional to the DCR, but not always.

I've checked my archives, BTW: in the borrowed Epi Nighthawk mentioned in my last post, the bridge PU measured more than 17k. Yours is @ 16k. So, if you want the same kind of voicing, the SH4 really appears to be the solution.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

I've checked my archives, BTW: in the borrowed Epi Nighthawk mentioned in my last post, the bridge PU measured more than 17k. Yours is @ 16k. So, if you want the same kind of voicing, the SH4 really appears to be the solution.

The resistence is only one part of a PU's tone. If I remember correctly, JB's use a thin wire gauge and have narrow coils. It's an unusual PU that can be quirky in some guitars, most often in mahogany, where a number of members here have reported in some guitars it can have unwanted characteristics ('ice pick spike' high-end and a loose low end). Doesn't seem to do that in Strats and Teles. Many guys use JB's in mahogany and love them, others not so much (even though the same guys love them in their Strats). Any PU can sound different in one guitar to the next, but JB's seem to be a bit more of a wild card than most.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

The resistence is only one part of a PU's tone. If I remember correctly, JB's use a thin wire gauge and have narrow coils. It's an unusual PU that can be quirky in some guitars, most often in mahogany, where a number of members here have reported in some guitars it can have unwanted characteristics ('ice pick spike' high-end and a loose low end). Doesn't seem to do that in Strats and Teles. Many guys use JB's in mahogany and love them, others not so much (even though the same guys love them in their Strats). Any PU can sound different in one guitar to the next, but JB's seem to be a bit more of a wild card than most.

I agree, having owned several JB's these last 33 years.

That said; the DCR is not the only spec of the JB which matches the specs of a Gibson Nighthawk stock PU. As I said, they have close inductances and both of them produce the same kind of "dual" resonant peak (I've a few screenshots somewhere about it, I'll post it if possible).

 

[bazie]

Re: Whick bridge pickup for Epiphone Nighthawk?

So I replaced stock NHT pickup with SH-4. It sounds nice: warm and powerful. I think it should work well with neck Entwistle HV-M mini humbuker that I put instead of stock NHR earlier. I plan to redesign pickup switching electronics so that both humbuckers could be used together in various configurations (however I'm going to leave the original Epi Nighthawk switching modes).
I was however surprised with few mechanical details of SH-4:
1. The mounting screws and springs delivered with the pickup were way too long. I'd have to drill guitar body, so I decided to use Epi's springs and shorten the screws by ca. 6mm.
2. The polepieces screws are long, too. If I wanted to have the pickup far from the string, it would be slant in two dimensions
3. The most surprising is the polepieces spacing. Apparently it's for Gibson-like spacing. However, in Nighthawk (at least in mine), there is F-spacing. As a result, the E strings are not above polepieces. I hope it doesn't affect sound as much as visual effect.
It makes me wonder if there are other Nighthawk versions that SH-4 Slant fits (mechanically) better...