Why are Indonesian guitars better than Chinese?

[Top-L]

All the companies are building in Indonesia. These guitars represent mid range in the 500-1100 range. Chinese guitars are mostly everything below that in price.

Is it now the case that indonesian labor costs less than china, so they can put more attention to detail and better quality parts? Or is chinese labor cheaper?

I have a chinese guitar that came with many flaws, misaligned nut/pickup rings, cheap fretwire, no level/crown. I have an indo guitar that is nearly flawless and came with very good fretwork, duncan pickups, and neck binding. Cost only a little bit more although the body is a simple solid color.


In theory, chinese guitars could be just as good or better than usa / japan guitars if they were given the same budget, or are Chinese factories only geared for cheap mass production?

Imo, indonesian builders must either work cheaper, or are given larger budget. I have one indonesian guitar that im happy with, it is very well built, even though the finish is simple and the board is pau ferro. My chinese guitar, after ten years the frets are worn down and the neck is not good anymore.

 

[ICTGoober]

Your question is ridiculous on the face of it. It's too broad, and not specific enough.

 

[Top-L]

Your question is ridiculous on the face of it. It's too broad, and not specific enough.

At least you spelled ridiculous properly.

 

[hamerfan]

I think you can't generalize that. All factories do shoddy work on occasion. It's the QC that makes the difference.

 

[Mincer]

I don't know if you can directly compare. Most of the work is done by machines, with people being a small percentage of that. How trained are the labor force? About the same, I'd guess.

 

[GuitarStv]

China operates as the factories of the world right now. They'll make anything you specify for the price you specify. If you were paying Gibson USA prices for a guitar, I bet that Chinese factories could knock out a guitar of very high quality. But the problem is they would never be able to sell it. Chinese products have been synonymous with cheap cost cutting for so long that the average buyer isn't going to pay Gibson USA prices for one.

But if you want something cheaply made, China's usually the first place people think of. So they make what people ask 'em to.

 

[Securb]

It all comes down to the tooling. Some Chinese factories are very modern and have the capacity to create beautiful guitars. However, most manufacturers are turning to less expensive factories to churn out guitars focused on cost, not quality. That being said, today's entry-level Chinese guitars blow away the entry-level Japanese guitars I first encountered in the 70's for playability and tone.

 

[Top-L]

It all comes down to the tooling. Some Chinese factories are very modern and have the capacity to create beautiful guitars. However, most manufacturers are turning to less expensive factories to churn out guitars focused on cost, not quality. That being said, today's entry-level Chinese guitars blow away the entry-level Japanese guitars I first encountered in the 70's for playability and tone.

There is a reason my Chinese guitar's frets are worn down. It was a good player (after a level). But it came with medium(?) or med/jumbo frets(?), and the fretwire was softer so they wore relatively fast. After two levels there isn't enough to do another level; it will soon need a refret.

I needed to fill and redrill the pickup rings. And I needed to do the same with the Floyd nut which was loose, and also needed to be repositioned to get better intonation.

The pickups were quite decent and the FRS was solid and returned to zero (doesn't any more).

At the end of the day, its an ugly guitar with cheap appointments, but I definitely got my $300 worth from it. But it also made me realize why you spend more for better quality.

 

[Top-L]

China operates as the factories of the world right now. They'll make anything you specify for the price you specify. If you were paying Gibson USA prices for a guitar, I bet that Chinese factories could knock out a guitar of very high quality. But the problem is they would never be able to sell it. Chinese products have been synonymous with cheap cost cutting for so long that the average buyer isn't going to pay Gibson USA prices for one.

But if you want something cheaply made, China's usually the first place people think of. So they make what people ask 'em too.

This may be why they do the mid tier guitars in Indonesia. If they paid the Chinese factory more for better quality instruments, people would still see MIC and ask why this guitar costs twice what the cheap one does.

OTH, the Indonesian guitars I've played have all been very well constructed, but they are generally basic designs.

 

[larryguitar]

China operates as the factories of the world right now. They'll make anything you specify for the price you specify. If you were paying Gibson USA prices for a guitar, I bet that Chinese factories could knock out a guitar of very high quality. But the problem is they would never be able to sell it. Chinese products have been synonymous with cheap cost cutting for so long that the average buyer isn't going to pay Gibson USA prices for one.

But if you want something cheaply made, China's usually the first place people think of. So they make what people ask 'em to.

By all accounts (I have no personal experience) Eastman is building guitars that rival Gibson's standard quality instruments, and some compare them to custom shop guitars. Based on their used pricing, I suspect you're right; they might be great, but they're MIC and that's going to have a stigma for quite a while-at least as long as we all get misdrilled, butter-soft crap from China on Amazon.

Larry

 

[ICTGoober]

I own 2 Eastman carved archtops - an AR-804 (oval soundhole) and an AR-810 (f-holes). They are easily as nicely built as a Gibson L-5. They play great, they sound wonderful - and a couple jazz players here in who own L-5's have played both of them and agree with me. There is an older video on YT of the Eastman factory where craftsman are working away building each guitar old school fashion by hand with hand tools. You can't hear any machinery in the video. I'm sure some of their other offerings are machine made, but Eastman stuff (even the budget flattops) exhibit clean building techniques and sound good. Not all the Chinese stuff is this way.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I think it's to do more with costs & stigma than the CNC machines in Indonesia being 'better' than the ones in China..

My MIC BC Rich spalted maple Ironbird Pro Series axe is as good in every way as anything I've got from Indonesia (or anywhere else for that matter). They were about $800 new, I guess around 2005-10, and had higher specs than entry level guitars from China (mahogany neck-through, ebony board, EMG 81, Floyd 1000) because that what the manufacturer's forked out for and the factory more than delivered imo..it's an awesome axe by any standards..

 

[PFDarkside]

As I understand it, a lot of the better Indonesian guitars are coming out of the Cort factory. It’s not so much that “Indonesia is better” it’s that Cort is better and they happen to be build there.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Though Cort actually builds in both countries...they have factories in Indonesia & China.

 

[beaubrummels]

The Indonesian guitars I have were made out of nice woods and routed very well and precisely. The finishes feel fragile to me, but generally nice guitars.

I don't own too many Chinese guitars. The one I do own is actually pretty good and was the photo model for the distributor and the seller. Perhaps being the first person to buy has it's advantages.

I couldn't generalize that Indonesian guitars are better than Chinese.

One thing I know for fact about Chinese manufacturing from experience hiring them is they build to exactly your specs, not one bit better and not one bit worse. They will build exactly what you contract for. So if you spec'd a high quality instrument, spec'd how the finish should be, spec'd how the routing should be, spec'd the tolerances on everything, they will build and deliver exactly that. But the tighter the tolerance, the higher the price, because they will build a bunch, and only sell you the ones that match your tolerances. And if you want to retain control, you better pay for and require delivery of the non-conforming pieces also, or they could end up on the secondary market. Chinese will do the job, but they are all about making money also. When Chinese deliver a sub-standard instrument, it's not because they are Chinese, it's because the original company didn't spec any higher quality of instrument.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Skill and work ethic of the workers.

 

[Top-L]

The Indonesian guitars I have were made out of nice woods and routed very well and precisely. The finishes feel fragile to me, but generally nice guitars.

I don't own too many Chinese guitars. The one I do own is actually pretty good and was the photo model for the distributor and the seller. Perhaps being the first person to buy has it's advantages.

I couldn't generalize that Indonesian guitars are better than Chinese.

One thing I know for fact about Chinese manufacturing from experience hiring them is they build to exactly your specs, not one bit better and not one bit worse. They will build exactly what you contract for. So if you spec'd a high quality instrument, spec'd how the finish should be, spec'd how the routing should be, spec'd the tolerances on everything, they will build and deliver exactly that. But the tighter the tolerance, the higher the price, because they will build a bunch, and only sell you the ones that match your tolerances. And if you want to retain control, you better pay for and require delivery of the non-conforming pieces also, or they could end up on the secondary market. Chinese will do the job, but they are all about making money also. When Chinese deliver a sub-standard instrument, it's not because they are Chinese, it's because the original company didn't spec any higher quality of instrument.

Ugh. So now we have to worry about B stock versions of whatever guitar making its way into supply chain.

 

[justFred]

Why are Chinese guitars better than Indonesian guitars: Squier Classic Vibe.
c

 

[PFDarkside]

Why are Chinese guitars better than Indonesian guitars: Squier Classic Vibe.
c

My classic vibe is Indonesian!

 

[Fender_Punk]

Almost all the guitars from Indonesia, regardless of the brand, are made at the Cort factory. It's a massive factory that's been around awhile and has a good reputation