Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

[TimmyPage]

I'd like to preface this by saying that I hate restringing guitars. For the longest time it's been such an inexact exercise for me, and every time I restring a guitar I always get the first 1-2 strings looking really really sloppy on the pegheads (lots of extra material etc). That is, except one of my guitars, my Squier CVC comes with vintage style pegheads, where you just cut the string to a certain length, push them in the hole, wind and the whole process is practically done for you. It's such a brilliant but simple system I don't understand why modern guitars don't use it, or other brands besides Fender, I've never felt so happy about changing strings before.

For anyone curious of what I put on a telecaster, this is actually a weird set for me: 12-54 with a plain G. Not only am I going down from my usual 13-56, but it'll mark the first time in about 2 years that I've put a non-wound G string on, it feels kind of.. weedly to me, keeps shifting under my fingers but it'll just take some adjustment.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

That's some big ole strings you are working with there.

It took me a long time to learn how to string a peghead properly. I guess I never paid much attention to it. I used to have some photos on my old website step by step. I'll need to do it again at some point and post.

 

[SamusChief]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

Does a wound G stay in tune better than a normal, unwound one? If it does, I know what kind of strings I'm getting next!

 

[oilpit]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

Funny, I have those tuners on my Tele and I absolutely hate them...modern tuners are MUCH easier for me.

 

[TimmyPage]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

Does a wound G stay in tune better than a normal, unwound one? If it does, I know what kind of strings I'm getting next!

It stays in tune better and has much better intonation. I'm a jazz player so bending really doesn't come into play at all, but if you bend the G a lot you'll find that the tension on it is quite a bit higher and it is notably harder to bend than a plain string. It also produces a slightly different sound, it doesn't sound twangy or honky like the plain G is prone to, though I'm finding with a set of 12's the plain G isn't -as much- of a problem as usual.

 

[Steelrz13]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

I have these tuners on my stratc and I love them also. It's really easy to string it. One reason they may have changed them is because you aren't supposed to use high gauge strings with them. I've heard they pop out or something? Not sure though I've never tried it I use 10s.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

Locking tuners don't have this problem- they don't have to even wind around the post all the way.
That being said, I love the tuners on the Steinbergers- the string has a ball on both ends, drop it in the groove on both sides, and up to pitch in 5 seconds. No excess to trim.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

Locking tuners don't have this problem- they don't have to even wind around the post all the way.
That being said, I love the tuners on the Steinbergers- the string has a ball on both ends, drop it in the groove on both sides, and up to pitch in 5 seconds. No excess to trim.

Yes! There are innumerable reasons why lockers are superior. One of which, as you touched on, is almost no wraps, which reduces "twist tension" in the strings which is a lesser-blamed cause of tuning issues. Yeah, they don't look "old" but I liken it to crank starters on old cars. I mean, is there some elderly dude out there saying, "Dang it! I miss the old crank starters! You buncha wimps. Cars just don't look right w/o the handle dangling down in the front!"

 

[Grandturk]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

There is also the weight issue to think about when considering lockers...

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

There is also the weight issue to think about when considering lockers...

Some attest to added weight at the heastock increasing sustain. I can't say for sure that's a fact, but if you consider a couple grams here and there "a weight issue", I can imagine your conundrum if you changed body woods.

 

[Kam]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

What's so different about vintage style tuning pegs, anyway? I'm not sure if I've ever used them.

Some attest to added weight at the heastock increasing sustain. I can't say for sure that's a fact, but if you consider a couple grams here and there "a weight issue", I can imagine your conundrum if you changed body woods.

I think he means the extra weight making the guitar neck heavy and handle differently, rather than making the guitar too heavy to hold on a strap.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

I feel your pain!! But I now have 30 guitars & keeping them all strung is a chore. I change strings at least once a week. Sometimes more. It has become routine for me and the difference in tuning systems has made little difference. The one style of guitar that I don't have( and can't really see me ever having) is a Floyd Rose equipped guitar... Those are a real PITA to change strings on. With Gibsons I just slide the string in to where I have enough to wrap it around the post & allow enough string to wrap one above and one below the hole. the plain strings I normally interlock them. Once I stretch them out they are pretty stable.

Fenders... well I agree they are easier but if you use the Whammy on a Strat aggressively they just won't stay in tune, so locking tuners, graphite nuts & saddles are what you really need. The locking tuners are really good. They are easy to change strings, especially if you break one in the middle of a song. I have Schaller locking tuners on a few of my Strats & I love them. I have a cheap set of Kluson vintage style tuners on one that I will eventually upgrade to better version. These tend to rattle a bit, but I have tightened them recently & seem to be better. restringing isn't really difficult you just have to put in the practice on changing them. I can do a string change in about 15 minutes now, but on my Classical........ well I leave that for a buddy of mine. I don't change strings on them enough to fell confident I can tie them on correctly.

 

[tc]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

I think he means the extra weight making the guitar neck heavy and handle differently, rather than making the guitar too heavy to hold on a strap.

That, and also the debate regarding the fact that if you follow simple physics it makes sense to some degree that when you gain resonance you sacrifice sustain and vice versa. In that case lighter tuners would give you more resonance, IF it really were as simple as that.

I also love the slothead Klusons on my Strat. They're the best, but I've also wanted to try out Gotoh's locking version of the slotheads. From what I've seen not all locking tuners are heavier than their vintage counterparts, but right now I can't remember which were touted as lightweight. I'll look into it.

BTW, Kam, you put the string inside the tuner instead of through it with the old Kluson style tuners.

Look at this. This is a modern string through tuner. Edit: Actually, it's a locking string through tuner. Didn't notice the little wheels at first sight.

Now this is a vintage style Kluson.

Notice the holes in the center of the tuning post? That's were the string goes into. Not only are they neat, but they eliminate sharp string ends (if the person stringing them doesn't know how to remove them).

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

I really don't care what tuning peg is on a guitar, knowing the nut is cut perfectly.

I simply give each string a couple fingers worth of slack, do the under/over pinch lock on them (except for vintage Fender), stretch and tighten them quickly, and they tend to stay in tune perfectly once fully stretched.

I give way more thought to the nut slots and intonation. Tuners on good guitars are almost always perfectly adequate.

 

[Chad]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

It stays in tune better and has much better intonation. I'm a jazz player so bending really doesn't come into play at all, but if you bend the G a lot you'll find that the tension on it is quite a bit higher and it is notably harder to bend than a plain string. It also produces a slightly different sound, it doesn't sound twangy or honky like the plain G is prone to, though I'm finding with a set of 12's the plain G isn't -as much- of a problem as usual.

Actually, if talking the same gauge, a wound string is lower mass and therefore lower tension, which will require less effort to play and bend.

 

[Kam]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

BTW, Kam, you put the string inside the tuner instead of through it with the old Kluson style tuners.

Look at this. This is a modern string through tuner. Edit: Actually, it's a locking string through tuner. Didn't notice the little wheels at first sight.


Notice the holes in the center of the tuning post? That's were the string goes into. Not only are they neat, but they eliminate sharp string ends (if the person stringing them doesn't know how to remove them).

I can't believe I've been playing guitar for nearly six years and I didn't know that. I guess you're always learning.

That was an awesome explanation. Thanks for taking the time to do that, man. :beerchug:

 

[Varg]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

12-54 strings?

 

[Grandturk]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

Some attest to added weight at the heastock increasing sustain. I can't say for sure that's a fact, but if you consider a couple grams here and there "a weight issue", I can imagine your conundrum if you changed body woods.

I think he means the extra weight making the guitar neck heavy and handle differently, rather than making the guitar too heavy to hold on a strap.

Yup. Feels different in the hands.

The one style of guitar that I don't have( and can't really see me ever having) is a Floyd Rose equipped guitar... Those are a real PITA to change strings on.

You must be doing something wrong. Floyd Rose (original Floyd Rose double locking) are the easiest bridges to change strings on and certainly take the least amount of time - if only because you don't need to "stretch" the strings.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

I really don't care what tuning peg is on a guitar, knowing the nut is cut perfectly.

I simply give each string a couple fingers worth of slack, do the under/over pinch lock on them (except for vintage Fender), stretch and tighten them quickly, and they tend to stay in tune perfectly once fully stretched.

I give way more thought to the nut slots and intonation. Tuners on good guitars are almost always perfectly adequate.

Same here. I used to look at the tuners first and then learned it's all about the nut. It could have violin type tuners on it for all I care as long as the nut is right.

 

[Rich_T]

Re: Why did Fender ever change from vintage style tuning pegs?

The reason I like those vintage ones over and above others is the lack of sharp string ends to cut myself open with.