I was looking to get a Double Cream JB and see on the website that you can specify any color combination EXCEPT Double Cream? What's up with that?
http://www.seymourduncan.com/custom-colors
http://www.seymourduncan.com/custom-colors
Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
- Thread starter kylek350
- Start date
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
DiMarzio has a trademark on double cream bobbins. A trademark, not a patent - those expire and are meant to protect intellectual property for new technologies. Patents are not for protecting brand identifying cosmetics; trademarks serve that purpose, and are in effect indefinitely (as long as the brand protects their trademark by pursuing anyone who violates it).
*I am not making the assumption that you are unaware of the difference between a patent and a trademark. The reason for my explanation is due to the frequency of your question, and the frequency in which people in general don't understand the differences between a patent and trademark. The DiMarzio trademark on double cream bobbins does not affect pickup makers whose business is entirely stationed outside the United States - like Bareknuckle Pickups; they can sell double cream bobbin pickups. Now there's debate as to which DiMarzio's trademark is right or wrong, as Gibson used double cream bobbins on their original PAFs before DiMarzio was in the aftermarket pickup business, but having that discussion would just be beating a dead horse.
DiMarzio has a trademark on double cream bobbins. A trademark, not a patent - those expire and are meant to protect intellectual property for new technologies. Patents are not for protecting brand identifying cosmetics; trademarks serve that purpose, and are in effect indefinitely (as long as the brand protects their trademark by pursuing anyone who violates it).
*I am not making the assumption that you are unaware of the difference between a patent and a trademark. The reason for my explanation is due to the frequency of your question, and the frequency in which people in general don't understand the differences between a patent and trademark. The DiMarzio trademark on double cream bobbins does not affect pickup makers whose business is entirely stationed outside the United States - like Bareknuckle Pickups; they can sell double cream bobbin pickups. Now there's debate as to which DiMarzio's trademark is right or wrong, as Gibson used double cream bobbins on their original PAFs before DiMarzio was in the aftermarket pickup business, but having that discussion would just be beating a dead horse.
Rand-O-Monium
New member
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
Well,you "could" buy a Zebra & a Rev Zebra & make one & sell the Dbl Blk,but...
Sometimes they'll show up on eBay,but generally go for crazy money...
Well,you "could" buy a Zebra & a Rev Zebra & make one & sell the Dbl Blk,but...
Sometimes they'll show up on eBay,but generally go for crazy money...
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
Because during the '70's, double cream bobbins came to specifically identify DiMarzio pickups in the eyes of the vast majority of musicians. It became an unofficially acquired mark of the brand in the aftermarket guitar parts marketplace (which was quite small at that time). When other pickup makers (i.e. Duncan) started to come up in the market, DiMarzio officially trademarked the double cream look as a mark of their brand.
Makes perfect sense to me, looking at it objectively; others have a huge problem with it, though.
FWIW, you can order double parchment Duncans, which IMHO are a nicer shade of cream anyhow, as well as being more true to the original color of "white" Gibson humbucker bobbins. Double cream is really a sickly look to me. Parchment is far classier to my taste.
Because during the '70's, double cream bobbins came to specifically identify DiMarzio pickups in the eyes of the vast majority of musicians. It became an unofficially acquired mark of the brand in the aftermarket guitar parts marketplace (which was quite small at that time). When other pickup makers (i.e. Duncan) started to come up in the market, DiMarzio officially trademarked the double cream look as a mark of their brand.
Makes perfect sense to me, looking at it objectively; others have a huge problem with it, though.
FWIW, you can order double parchment Duncans, which IMHO are a nicer shade of cream anyhow, as well as being more true to the original color of "white" Gibson humbucker bobbins. Double cream is really a sickly look to me. Parchment is far classier to my taste.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
And the reason no one else can is two fold -
The first is that Larry DiMarzio sucks moose junk. He has a valid claim I'd argue, in the 70's.
Today - if someone were to make them and sell them, as if they had a set of balls, Larry would lose in court. The test is to ask 100 musicians what a double cream pickup is and if they DON'T say "DiMarzio" then fail.
Today - that wouldn't happen. In the 70's if you showed a hundred guys a double cream pickup they'd say it. was a DiMarzio, or a SuperDistortion or whatever.
But someone has to bite the legal fees to play that game.
And the reason no one else can is two fold -
The first is that Larry DiMarzio sucks moose junk. He has a valid claim I'd argue, in the 70's.
Today - if someone were to make them and sell them, as if they had a set of balls, Larry would lose in court. The test is to ask 100 musicians what a double cream pickup is and if they DON'T say "DiMarzio" then fail.
Today - that wouldn't happen. In the 70's if you showed a hundred guys a double cream pickup they'd say it. was a DiMarzio, or a SuperDistortion or whatever.
But someone has to bite the legal fees to play that game.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
This is true, and it just adds to the fact that Gibson has no valid claim to the double cream look, even though they were the first to produce humbuckers with cream bobbins. That Gibson, not DiMarzio, first produced double creams is an argument often used by those who are against the DiMarzio trademark. But the issue is one of branding (trademark), not one of invention/production (patent). E.g. the Bass brewery triangle is one of the earliest trademarks. It doesn't mean that the company invented two-dimensional red triangles; it means that they used a two dimensional red triangle to identify their brand, and then legally claimed it as their mark in the beer market. Double cream was never done specifically by design on Gibson pickups, and it also never came to specifically represent the Gibson brand in the marketplace. The Gibson bobbins were never intended to be seen. DiMarzios were, however, and whether they planned it or not, double cream exposed bobbins came to identify the DiMarzio brand. You can bet your ass I would have TMd that **** too, as would any attentive business person.
Also, it's worth noting that DiMarzio's TM only applies to that particular hue. You can do double light colored bobbins, just not quite as yellow as theirs. IMO, their pickups look jaundiced anyhow; double parchment Duncans are much classier.
This is true, and it just adds to the fact that Gibson has no valid claim to the double cream look, even though they were the first to produce humbuckers with cream bobbins. That Gibson, not DiMarzio, first produced double creams is an argument often used by those who are against the DiMarzio trademark. But the issue is one of branding (trademark), not one of invention/production (patent). E.g. the Bass brewery triangle is one of the earliest trademarks. It doesn't mean that the company invented two-dimensional red triangles; it means that they used a two dimensional red triangle to identify their brand, and then legally claimed it as their mark in the beer market. Double cream was never done specifically by design on Gibson pickups, and it also never came to specifically represent the Gibson brand in the marketplace. The Gibson bobbins were never intended to be seen. DiMarzios were, however, and whether they planned it or not, double cream exposed bobbins came to identify the DiMarzio brand. You can bet your ass I would have TMd that **** too, as would any attentive business person.
Also, it's worth noting that DiMarzio's TM only applies to that particular hue. You can do double light colored bobbins, just not quite as yellow as theirs. IMO, their pickups look jaundiced anyhow; double parchment Duncans are much classier.
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slightly_rude
New member
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
You could probably buy one from the custom shop in double cream with an unpotted nickel cover installed.
That's how the Brobuckers were made.
You could probably buy one from the custom shop in double cream with an unpotted nickel cover installed.
That's how the Brobuckers were made.
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Rand-O-Monium
New member
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not any more,is my understanding...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not any more,is my understanding...
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
The problem I have with this is that a color trademark should only apply to a whole thing, but a pickup is a small part of a large guitar. For that reason alone this trademark is clearly invalid.
There are subtle differences between U.S. and E.U. trademark laws that will make this even more clear in the E.U.
Either way it's a dick move and given that it is one in a long stream of attempting to gain a competitive advantage by randomly lawyering around I am clearly in the camp of boycotting DiMarzio.
The problem I have with this is that a color trademark should only apply to a whole thing, but a pickup is a small part of a large guitar. For that reason alone this trademark is clearly invalid.
There are subtle differences between U.S. and E.U. trademark laws that will make this even more clear in the E.U.
Either way it's a dick move and given that it is one in a long stream of attempting to gain a competitive advantage by randomly lawyering around I am clearly in the camp of boycotting DiMarzio.
Rand-O-Monium
New member
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
See #16
It's been tried,but shot down,I believe...
See #16
It's been tried,but shot down,I believe...
Rand-O-Monium
New member
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
FWIW,you could always try some Bobbin Toppers...
edit:
http://www.universaljems.com/cart/bobbin.htm
FWIW,you could always try some Bobbin Toppers...
edit:
http://www.universaljems.com/cart/bobbin.htm
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RayBarbeeMusic
Active member
Re: Why is Double Cream not available on customer orders?
Yes you all hate Larry for the double cream thing but using "jb", "evh", and "whole lotta" but claiming it stands for something else to avoid paying those artists doesn't bother you in the least. Get real.
Want a double cream duncan? Easy. Get zebra, Rev zebra, swap coils.
Yes you all hate Larry for the double cream thing but using "jb", "evh", and "whole lotta" but claiming it stands for something else to avoid paying those artists doesn't bother you in the least. Get real.
Want a double cream duncan? Easy. Get zebra, Rev zebra, swap coils.
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