Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

I was just making a point about people claiming an artist is "selling out" for money. If most of them were to have their royalties taken away, they would cry like children. I mean honestly, if a speaker manufactruer were to offer me an obscene amount of money to put my name on something, I would do it as long as it was a good product. Not that that would ever happen, but my point was basicly that I seriously doubt there are truly any famous people, musicians or otherwise that a) aren't in it for fame/money and regardless of their sociopolitical claims and b)walk their supposed claims of integrity artistically.

They have bills just like the rest of us, usually with a much higher price tag for their toys. As far as my rage comment, it was to point out TM'S hypocracy about his own political views.
 
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Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

I didn't think artists got paid anymore for endorsement deals. They get free gear with their name on it and higher visibility on the gear side that will hopefully translate to album sales and tickets (although it usually goes the other way around--people like the tone first and then buy the gear). Maybe they get a small percentage for each item sold.

Something like a deal with a string company would probably come to be worth several thousand dollars for a band that plays 200 dates a year and changes strings with every show. Compensation isn't purely cash. Every little bit helps when it comes to offsetting gear prices and lowering overhead as much as possible when touring.

As for TM he can advocate his leftist views on one hand as an ideal and then cash in with practical concerns on the other. A lot of that kind of angle is to be "against" something (the establishment) and therefore appear edgier in order to sell rock records. This was a big deal with Gen X and the grunge/alternative movement in the early 90s.

On the opposite side, you can have Dave Mustaine coming from a libertarian angle, who, like Morello, criticizes any political system just because they're in power (Dave has swung from being leftwing in the early 90s to being a far right libertarian now, usually depending upon whomever is in office so his music can set a lyrical contrast to their policies.) Ideally, Dave can advocate freedom all he wants but he's probably going to be against a "freer" market that undermines the business model for his music.

So everybody's a bit of a hypocrite.

More to the point of the OP, if the original Demon can be sold (albeit without a tie to George), why can't the Super V just drop George's name?

My guess was that the Demon design was introduced so long ago that any exclusivity clause George had with it probably lapsed, which allows Demons to be sold without a connection to George even though he originally helped develop and market the design.

All this is speculation and I'd appreciate it if anyone has any further insight.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity. - RUSH

Who named the Screamin Demon, Lynch or Duncan? If it was Duncan, then it's Duncan's IP. If Lynch named the Super V, then it's his IP. Duncan can advertise an Evenly Voiced Harmonics pickup and let the public call it an EVH, and Ed can't do anything about it.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

Is it about the name, or the design?

I doubt George knows much about electronics, but his ear is what made the pickup. Then again, SD engineers had to translate his descriptions into reality. I lean more toward SD owning the design, which is why I don't understand the dropping of the Super V. Then again, without George the Demon (and probably the Super V) wouldn't exist (although another artist in the same genre might have developed a similar pickup).

Companies probably give artists generous IP terms to encourage them to sign endorsement deals, especially if they can move a lot of units. These probably have a time basis, like 2-5 years.

You can look at it in other ways. EMG still sells SV/SAV/SLV pickups even though they are associated with Steve Lukather and he is now with DiMarzio. That doesn't stop EMG from selling SLVs.

I'm just surprised Duncan hasn't gotten around this by making a new pickup and then saying, "We took our old Super V design and..." This would allow them to keep the design with only making minor changes.

Which comes back to my original point, and criticism, of a lot of the gear market. There are too many models. There are probably 6-8 basic designs that are repackaged with only slight changes. Players hungry for ever better tone buy these mainly to experiment--the vast majority are probably ripped out and resold, with the original buyer taking a huge hit but the used market getting a good deal. It takes a long time for new designs to trickle down here--Blackouts have been out for 10 years and they are just now becoming fairly common on the used market.

Other pickups like the EMG 81, JB, and now Blackout are a good deal because they come OEM on a lot of guitars, and, I suspect, as new designs become more popular, maybe some day they will become popular enough to be OEMed.

Still, I'd prefer fewer models. So many choices combined with trial and error and personal taste makes pickup selection expensive and time consuming.

Yet, the Super V seemed to hit the nail on the head if it was what I suspected it was--a higher output Demon with more fatness in the highs (I have talked on other threads about combining the bottom of the Demon with the top of a Full Shred and how this would be my ideal pickup atm).

Someone's earlier post about George's changing tastes was also spot on. My pickup selection process was much simpler when I was into the active/Mesa sound. Now that I'm older and more nuanced, the tone choices become more complex.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

I remember Tom Morello talking about how everything would be better if everything was communist/socialist. Then the next week I saw him on tv showing off his collection of classic Mopars. I wonder if he realizes that his prized car collection would be distributed to the people if we DID undergo that kind of political progression.

Why is this political post tolerated in a forum that's not supposed to have any politics?
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

Probably because he was talking about Tom Morello's views and not the topics themselves, which I have tried to skirt as much as possible while still being relevant to musicians.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

Probably because he was talking about Tom Morello's views and not the topics themselves, which I have tried to skirt as much as possible while still being relevant to musicians.

You didn't skirt the TOS, you out and out violated it but the admin just isn't interested in applying the rules so nothing happened.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

I skirted the TOS.

Discussing politics directly violates them, such as if we discussed ideologies in detail and debated specific issues--something one might do on the H-Net discussion boards (a humanities and social science website for academics).

Rather, we were discussing musicians' public personas and whether they are hypocrites when these personas are contradicted by compensation and endorsements in the music industry (a direction I did not take, by the way--guitar74 did--but I felt his comment was worth addressing because it pertained to endorsement deals and compensation). I felt that he made a valid point and that it was necessary to pose another example as a counterpoint to his, not to discuss these issues in detail.

I felt that it was getting close to violating the TOS, so then I brought the conversation back to the pickup.

Don't make drama by making mountains out of mole hills, please. Doing so would veer us once again off topic and perhaps violate the TOS, making you a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

oh I'm sorry I didn't know George was your boyfriend.

Not at all, never met the man and frankly don't know much about him or his music but it seems un fair to state thing the way you did on the Internet w/o any facts to back up your statement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

Why is this political post tolerated in a forum that's not supposed to have any politics?

It's really a "character evidence" post, credibility the subject, politics an incidental.

It is important to guess at the motivation behind a pickup endorsement, because the sad fact is that an artist can put any pickup in their guitar and we'd never know they were being unfaithful to their own pickup. To know if a guitarist truly believes in their own pickup becomes a round of poker, you have to try to read them.

The concept of an artist endorsed pickup is precarious when you consider that most rock stars tend to not be faithful to any one guitar, and they'll exploit the ease of using fifteen different guitars throughout a thirty song show... but suddenly when it comes to pickups were supposed to believe they have a strong preference? It's kind of silly.

I think the idea that a guitarist's sound comes from his pickups is something that only beginners really believe because they don't know any better, they haven't parsed out how much of the tone is actually the amp, or even "in the fingers". A novice guitarist just knows that the pickups are close to the string, Seymour Duncan sells a George Lynch pickup for a good price, and it all seems to check out. It's only after you realize that "tone is in the fingers", and that Slash sounds like Slash with any pos guitar, that you realize maybe this pickup endorsement thing was kind of like Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy. Most of the endorsed artists probably always used, and probably continue to use, whatever came stock in the guitar.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

^ I agree to an extent, but having gear set up the way you like it puts fewer barriers between you and what you're expressing. Playing through someone else's gear is like a golfer swinging with someone else's custom made golf clubs. You can still play at a pro level if you're good, but it might be a bit awkward.

Pros might be able to sound like themselves through a wide variety of gear, but a player will struggle if he's unfamiliar with the set up.

That said, some people can get really useful tones out of gear that some would say is not good.

At the other end of it, you can also have diminishing returns, where everything is custom made but it doesn't improve the tone enough to justify the cost. It's so subjective.

The older I get, pickup selection is less about tone, especially with software assisting the process. It's more about feel. Of the pickups I've tried, I know the pickups I work well with (including the Blackouts, Full Shreds, Demon, Jazz, Distortion, and EMG 60) and the ones I don't work so well with (59, JB, Alternative 8, sometimes EMG 81, EMG 85).

Also, to present another counterpoint to the credibility argument, you could look at guys like Tony Iommi and Angus Young who have used similar gear for decades (Tony may have used BC Rich in the 80s--I'm not a big Sabbath fan). Anyway, I find it odd that both of them would prefer Gibson when they could have boutique builders build them whatever they like. My guess is for years they played whatever was stock in their guitars and didn't bother changing it.

Then again, you could probably say that, until the 70s, "affordable" guitars had great stuff in them--Fenders and Gibsons from the 50s-early 70s had parts and playability in them that people now pay a lot of money to obtain directly or emulate. Angus and Tony probably had better stuff for the price back then than we do now because they started playing in that golden age of gear. Then along came boutique builders like Seymour in the 1970s who improved upon slipping quality heard in Fender and Gibson stock models.

For a while in the 70s and 80s these boutique pickups were seen as a major upgrade, but now they're considered standard for mid priced and up guitars (even in my relatively short playing time--20 years--I've seen EMGs go from major upgrade in the early-mid 90s to almost universal stock in guitars of their genre by the 00s). Aftermarket manufacturers have almost completely replaced the Fender and Gibson stuff they were meant to improve upon, except for those purists who buy Fender and Gibson largely for the name or what they perceive as superior tone due to the name.

Just speculation on my part. But the point is there are guys who seem fairly loyal to their gear. It's just that marketed gear, as someone said, is probably a lucrative income stream in an era of declining recorded music sales.

Another thought might be Steve Vai. He's used Carvin for as long as I can remember. I'm sure he could get more money through Marshall (upon which I'm pretty sure the Legacy amps are based), but he stays with a solid, lesser known builder.

For that matter, almost all players could sign with Marshall if they wanted and if Marshall would pay for it (Marshall probably has huge amounts of money for endorsements and their gear and tone is so ubiquitous), but some of them elect to go with other gear even if they have Marshall type sounds. This might be because maybe they applied to Marshall and got turned down, but some big names, like Vai, I look at and wonder why he isn't with a better known company in terms of reputation (Gibson, Fender, Marshall, Mesa). That leads me to believe that some of it really is about tonal preferences, or at least finding someone who will build them what they want at a mutually agreeable cost.
 
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Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

The older I get, pickup selection is less about tone, especially with software assisting the process. It's more about feel. Of the pickups I've tried, I know the pickups I work well with (including the Blackouts, Full Shreds, Demon, Jazz, Distortion, and EMG 60) and the ones I don't work so well with (59, JB, Alternative 8, sometimes EMG 81, EMG 85).

I'm glad you said that, because I think for a lot of guitarists it's about feel too, but intuitively guitarists want to attribute feel to things like string size, scale and action, and only want to consider pickups in terms of output, and fail to observe that it really is interactivity that makes or breaks a pickup more than it has anything to do with tone. I recorded some pickup demos because in some cases they're useful, but most of the time they do no good because they say nothing about the interactive experience with a pickup. This is why electric guitarists should really embrace the technical aspects of pickups and not leave it all to colorful wording, because technical details can foretell what it will be like to actually use a pickup, where as sound clips tell half the story and creative adjectives are hopelessly subjective.

Also, to present another counterpoint to the credibility argument, you could look at guys like Tony Iommi and Angus Young who have used similar gear for decades (Tony may have used BC Rich in the 80s--I'm not a big Sabbath fan). Anyway, I find it odd that both of them would prefer Gibson when they could have boutique builders build them whatever they like. My guess is for years they played whatever was stock in their guitars and didn't bother changing it.

A lot of guitarists just like stock guitars, they don't give two tootsie rolls about any modification of any sort. They would sooner put stickers on their guitars.

Then again, you could probably say that, until the 70s, "affordable" guitars had great stuff in them--Fenders and Gibsons from the 50s-early 70s had parts and playability in them that people now pay a lot of money to obtain directly or emulate. Angus and Tony probably had better stuff for the price back then than we do now because they started playing in that golden age of gear. Then along came boutique builders like Seymour in the 1970s who improved upon slipping quality heard in Fender and Gibson stock models.

IIRC it was the Super Distortion that made DiMarzio, and the JB that made Seymour Duncan, which are unique pickups that defined the 70's/80's guitar hero sound (or whatever, who knows), so that being the case it would be more about new and fresh rather than a return to form.

For a while in the 70s and 80s these boutique pickups were seen as a major upgrade, but now they're considered standard for mid priced and up guitars (even in my relatively short playing time--20 years--I've seen EMGs go from major upgrade in the early-mid 90s to almost universal stock in guitars of their genre by the 00s). Aftermarket manufacturers have almost completely replaced the Fender and Gibson stuff they were meant to improve upon, except for those purists who buy Fender and Gibson largely for the name or what they perceive as superior tone due to the name.

I wouldn't presume guitars are pre-loaded with aftermarket pickups because their sound is a selling point, so much as the fact that they're an aftermarket pickup is the selling point. Crappy guitars have been successful and quality guitars have been flops, so in general, I never regard either sales numbers or marketing efforts as being indicative of anything real or audible. That's why I'm skeptical about the role of the Super Distortion or the JB in guitar history, because while it's true they sound distinctive, it is and always will be somewhat subtle and the audience will be completely oblivious. People ask "what pickups did guitarist X use on Y album?", it speaks volumes that a person can't tell by simply listening to it. So were these things really tools or fashion accessories? It's impossible to know.

Just speculation on my part. But the point is there are guys who seem fairly loyal to their gear. It's just that marketed gear, as someone said, is probably a lucrative income stream in an era of declining recorded music sales.

Another thought might be Steve Vai. He's used Carvin for as long as I can remember. I'm sure he could get more money through Marshall (upon which I'm pretty sure the Legacy amps are based), but he stays with a solid, lesser known builder.

For that matter, almost all players could sign with Marshall if they wanted and if Marshall would pay for it (Marshall probably has huge amounts of money for endorsements and their gear and tone is so ubiquitous), but some of them elect to go with other gear even if they have Marshall type sounds. This might be because maybe they applied to Marshall and got turned down, but some big names, like Vai, I look at and wonder why he isn't with a better known company in terms of reputation (Gibson, Fender, Marshall, Mesa). That leads me to believe that some of it really is about tonal preferences, or at least finding someone who will build them what they want at a mutually agreeable cost.

There's a saying that guitarists are always chasing the perfect tone like a junkie chasing the dragon, and I think that applies to famous guitarists as well. At some point though, a lot of guitarists decide they're done looking, and I'm not entirely convinced they truly found the perfect tone so much as they were just tired of feeling lost, and I say this because so often the gear they land upon seems so mundane and readily available, like OMG Fender Fat 50's are my soul mate, or those guys who swear by some random vintage amp, like a Bassman or a AC30. Long story short, when people try to use logic and reason to explain something that's emotional and gut level, they're quite possibly lying to themselves and everyone else without even realizing it, grasping at the known to try to explain the unknown. If a person realizes that about themselves, I think it makes them more receptive to different things, less irrationally biased.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

Another thought might be Steve Vai. He's used Carvin for as long as I can remember. I'm sure he could get more money through Marshall (upon which I'm pretty sure the Legacy amps are based), but he stays with a solid, lesser known builder.

For that matter, almost all players could sign with Marshall if they wanted and if Marshall would pay for it (Marshall probably has huge amounts of money for endorsements and their gear and tone is so ubiquitous), but some of them elect to go with other gear even if they have Marshall type sounds. This might be because maybe they applied to Marshall and got turned down, but some big names, like Vai, I look at and wonder why he isn't with a better known company in terms of reputation (Gibson, Fender, Marshall, Mesa). That leads me to believe that some of it really is about tonal preferences, or at least finding someone who will build them what they want at a mutually agreeable cost.

I respect the points you are making but I've got to say:
I believe Vai's signature Carvin amp is inspired by the Carvin X100b that he used for years and years.The X100b seems to be Carvin's answer to the Mesa MK2. Why Carvin? I think it's something that goes back to Zappa as Warren Cuccurullo was also a X100b guy.
 
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Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

I've never tried them, but I do own a Carvin MTS3200, which the reissued X100B replaced. It's a great no frills JCM800 clone. It just needs a little boost up front.

Carvin's very solid and worth it for the used price. Not as good a deal as Peavey maybe for the price (Peavey stuff save the Wolfgang guitars and Cirrus basses are fairly cheap), but Carvin is close to boutique quality for under $2000 used. I just wish the used stuff had more premium features that one might get if one ordered something from them brand new. A lot of stuff out there seems to be base models (basses lacking piezos, for example).

Just surprises me that Vai isn't with Marshall, the Coca Cola of the amp world. Paul Gilbert is back with them, I believe.

And back to the original thread--I don't think George has left Randall.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

seymour%2Bduncan%2BSuper%2BV%2Bprs%2Bs2%2Bstd.jpg

Have one. Prefer Screamin' Demon.
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

I didn't know much about the Super V...what can you tell us about them?
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

Can someone clearly explain what theyre on about, or did that get censored by the administration??
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

I respect the points you are making but I've got to say:
I believe Vai's signature Carvin amp is inspired by the Carvin X100b that he used for years and years.The X100b seems to be Carvin's answer to the Mesa MK2. Why Carvin? I think it's something that goes back to Zappa as Warren Cuccurullo was also a X100b guy.

I am pretty sure that Vai's sig amp is based on the X100B's clean channel, with a more high-gain Marshall-esque lead channel. Vai and Zappa used the Carvins for the loud clean channel, for lead playing they used Marshall, Orange, etc.
Al
 
Re: Why was the second set of George Lynch pickups discontinued?

No censoring here, he deleted it himself.
 
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