Will P-rails TWANG?

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DirtyBluesBoy

New member
So I'm a budding musician. I'm 17 and just starting to play live with some older, more established gigging bands. Anyway, I play an Ibanez AS73 (basically a 335 copy) but the stock pups suck. Only the neck is usable. I'm already pretty sold on the p rails, but I'm wondering if the bridge can twang. I know a semi hollow is just about as un-twangy as it gets, but every now and then I find my self wanting to dial in the fendery bridge sound. I know the general agreement on the rail mode of the p rail is that it's pretty weak. I know a lot of you guys are older than me and have nicer equipment. So when you say the rail is "weak," do you mean that they aren't as good as the expensive boutique pickups in your USA strat, or do you mean that they really do suck too much to to be bothered with?

I've also heard p90s described as twangy on occasion. Do you guys think that the p90s could give me a decent country twang in the semi hollow? Even if I can't get twang, I'll still probably go with the prails, because I love that nasty p90 sound, and that sweet B.B. King style humbucker sound. But before I pull the plug, I'd like to know everything I can about these pups, because it's a lot of money for a kid (I'm literally painting fences in order to earn the money for these pickups). I'd really appreciate a more detailed description of the rail mode, because I couldn't find anything more descriptive than "they're pretty weak."

Thanks for any help you can give and sorry for the long post. I'm a nube but I really love guitar and I really appreciate ANY advice I can get from you more experienced players.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

I wouldn't say that the rail coil in a P-Rails sounds bad, it's just that it really doesn't sound like a vintage-style Strat pickup. It's sort of in the same ballpark in terms of output and general tonality, but it's really its own thing. I've used them before and I'm about to get a set for my SG, and I really like all 4 sounds you can get with triple-shots or similar. Since you wanted to know as much as possible about them, I'll include my impressions of the 4 sounds / modes.

1. Series: A rather fat humbucker that compares nicely with a Custom or JB. The coils aren't matched, so there's definitely some single coil personality coming through. I've heard some say it sounds like a humbucker-ized version of the P-90 and I can't say I disagree.

2. Parallel: P-rails' best-kept secret IMO; I don't know why this option isn't used more often. Sounds like a bright PAF (maybe a less-soft Pearly Gates?) with strong single coil personality due to the mismatched coils. When using both P-Rails I used the neck pickup in this mode or P-90 most of the time.

3. P-90: That pretty much says it all; the closest thing I've heard to a real P-90 that fits in a humbucker slot. I have a set of Phat Cats in my SG now, and I'm switching to P-Rails for the extra versatility and because this P-90 is MUCH better than a stock Phat Cat.

4. Rail: A very modern Strat-ish sound. The best description I can think of is maybe to imagine the Vintage Rails as a true single. They excel at a hifi clean sound, but I can't say I've used them for much beyond that. I definitely plan to play this one more once I change pickups in my SG.
 
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Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

+1 for the descriptions that dystrust has given BUT ONLY for P-Rails in a solid body guitar.

I currently have a P-Rails and P-Rails Hot pair in a PRS SE Custom Semi-Hollow.

In my opinion, the parallel coils sounds are what I had hoped the Rail coil sounds would be.

In the neck position, the series sound is very close to what you might expect from an American guitar - especially with valve overdrive and even more so with extreme gain and the guitar's tone pot rolled right down.

The P90 sound is fruitier than the series sound. More Barney Kessell than B. B. King. To my ears, the P-Rails P90 coil fails to sound exactly like a true P90. I have a singlecut PRS SE Soapbar model with Lindy Fralin overwound P90s. They really sing in a way that the P-Rails P90 coil does not always manage. (Something as simple as coil geometry or the proximity of the Rail coil may explain this.)

Regarding the "weakness" of the Rail coil. Firstly, this coil is of intentionally lower output than the P90 coil. In some applications, this would be advantageous. It would allow a swift change of gain and tonality. Unfortunately, to my ears, the sound of neither Rail coil sets my pulse racing. Underwhelming.

In past forum threads, I have often advocated maximising the sonic options of P-Rails pickups by making all four possibilities available. Based on recent experience, I now suggest just Series/P90/Parallel. (Admittedly, I have yet to test two Rail coils linked in series, in phase. By the same token, I feel no great urge to bother.)



EDIT - Try shooting a Personal Message to Artie Too. He probably has more experience of experimenting with P-Rails pickups than anyone else here.
 
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Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

Getting back to the "twang" thang, what species of Twang do you have in mind? Country, Rockabilly, Riddum 'n' Blooze, Malcolm Young riff grind?

In all of these instances, the answer is almost certainly a Gretsch Filter'Tron style pickup. On the following web page, you will see a list of 'Tron style pickups in conventional humbucker-sized housings. http://tvjones.com/pickups-2/find-your-fit/ My own tastes would be for a Classic N and Classic Plus B models.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

Twang is really all about all about technique and style. Any pickup will twang, if you tell it to. For starters, learn to play with your fingers and to hybrid pick. Then you will notice that you will have to try hard not to twang.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

Tele is the ultimate, although I know I'll never quite get there without a tele. Basically i'm looking for that fender bridge twangy sound. Part of what i'm wondering is can it even be done in a semi? Not huge on the Gretsch rockabilly tone. And I do finger pick, but I dont hybrid finger pick. I use my thumb.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

DirtyBluesBoy said:
Basically i'm looking for that fender bridge twangy sound.
Click to expand...

In that case, the simplest and most cost effective thing that you can do is sell the Ibanez and buy a Squier Telecaster.

The second simplest thing to do is install superior humbuckers and add series/parallel mode switching. On a budget, I would go for something like Tonerider Alnico IV Neck and Rocksong Bridge models.

I still say that you can get twangy with a 'Tron. :)

 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

Welcome to the forum,

The rail coil of the P-Rail can get some pretty twangy sounds. I've been using P-Rails in my #1 guitar for about 7 years now and have done some pretty extensive experimenting with them...position, orientation, magnet types, etc. I've only used it in solid body guitars, so I can't tell you exactly how it will perform in a semi, but here is my recommendation...

Yes, the rail coil is weak. NOT in its ability to perform and sound good, but in its output only (compared to the P-90 coil). Putting an A8 magnet next to the rail coil solves that problem giving it a big boost in output as well as upper mids. Makes it balance much better with the P-90 coil and improves and makes the series and parallel tones more distinct from the staight P-90 tone. Mount it with the rail coil next to the bridge to accentuate the treble. When I run it through a compressor I can get some pretty good country Tele twang out of it.

Yes, the P-90 tone is fantastic. Very solid and meaty and with that nice clarity and bite so typical to P-90s. Never sounds muddy like a humbucker can sometimes sound.

The description that Dystrust gave is pretty much right on. But I find the rail coil to sound more Teleish than Stratish.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

I'm not going to sell the Ibanez because it is the guitar that I learned on, so there is sentimental value. Plus, it's the most comfortable guitar I've ever played, and I don't really like the feel of telecasters. How complicated is a mag swap? This will be my first pickup swap and I'm a little nervous about the idea of pulling the thing apart. Is it something I can do relatively easily without screwing up the pickup?

Can you tell me about any experiences with magnet swaps in the rail?
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

Also, I've heard of people flipping the pup so the rail is closer to the bridge. Anybody try this? Does it sound cool or just plinky?
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

Somebody on this forum rigorously advocates installing P-Rails the "wrong" way around. I cannot remember whether it is Artie Too or GuitarDoc.

I have performed magnet swaps on P-Rails. At the time of this writing, I am wishing that I had not. My choices have left all coil combinations on my bridge position pickup sounding weak. (I have this sneaking suspicion that one of my magnets is the wrong way around. That, or UOA5 versus A8 is a bad pairing.) When I get the time, I shall be reverting to the standard A5s in the neck pickup and A8s in the bridge pickup.

A8 under the rail coil certainly evens out the output compared to an A5 under the P90 coil. To my mind, this is wrong. A P90 should be hotter than a skinny single coil.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

On the Ibanez, magnet swapping involves unscrewing the pickup mounting surround to raise the pickup out of the guitar body. With the body wood protected, it is possible to carry out the entire task armed only with a couple of screwdrivers.

Full-on pickup replacement will involve introducing the business end of a soldering iron to the volume pots. Unless your guitar has a removable plate on the rear, the electronics have to be drawn outside the body while the work is done. Next, the fun part - returning the controls to their original positions.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

Well I think I will give them a try. When I heard "weak" I thought it was in terms of performance, not output. I know a kid who's dad is apparently a pretty serious guitar modder so she said she could probably hook me up with some help on the installation.

I'm new, so I don't know forum etiquette very well yet, so I don't know if this is subject for a new thread. But on a side note, has anyone tried a Fralin Twangmaster in the bridge? I like the clean sound in Lindie's demo, but it's pretty short. There isn't much info out there on them, but the one clip sounds cool, and the name is intriguing. Any idea how they'd stack up against the rail or the p90 on the p rail?

Thanks for all the info guys!
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

<scrabbles about, Googlng for online demos of Fralin Twangmaster.>

As you may have guessed, the Fralin Twangmaster and P-92 pickups are heavily, shall we say, "inspired" by the Fender Wide Range humbucker of the Seventies. The real thing sounded brighter than a Gibson humbucker but considerably fatter than a vintage Stratocaster. If this is what you desire, order Fralins.

A school contemporary of mine had an original late Seventies Fender Telecaster Deluxe. It resolutely refused to sound like a vintage single coil Telecaster.

What is really called for here is a sound clip of the candidate pickups in a semi-hollow guitar.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

I have not used a P- Rails but the more I read about this pickup the more I want to install them. To the OP you got a very decent guitar there, the stock pickups do give a lot to be desired though. Also I might be wrong but stop looking to replicate that "FENDER Tele TWANG" on this guitar.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

TL;DR


Has anyone mentioned flipping the pickups around? That'll give you more twang.

Oh, and switch over to Alnico 5 or even the new Alnico 9 + Alnico 2 if you want a bolder high end while keeping the mids


Edit: My experience with P Rails are the Hot P Rails. Felt a bit better when flipped and with A5 rouchcast mags. A bit lacking in treble, A9 may just be the ticket to that though
 
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Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

http://youtu.be/xTt2GJEeoQY?t=2m18s

I'm no twanger, but I can fake it for about 30 seconds at a time. About 2 minutes in I start picking, using the P-90 coil in the bridge of a locking trem basswood guitar. Does that help? It's still "what you do with it" but the pickup should give you enough to work with.

Rails out is a totally valid setup. I even said that in my original communication with Duncan when I was sending them prototypes. Originally I wanted an "S" logo like what ended up on the Mick Thomson pickups. That way you could flip them around and the logo would look regular. But it was decided it looked better with the smaller Rails sized logo. However I have always said that you can order Shop Floor Custom any P-Rails with an upside-down logo so that it's right side up if you flip it.

I would prefer it flipped in a Tele, so the rail coil can approximate the Tele Rhythm pickup. I also have wanted to flip them on one of my H/S/H guitars (probably the one in that youtube video) but the logo has made me leave them. I'd have to rip the covers off and re-glue them back'erds. Maybe I'll just buff the logo off.
 
Re: Will P-rails TWANG?

Jeeze. I just saw how cheap those Peavey Rockmasters go used. I can get one of those with a SC-Humbucker adaptor and a cheap tele bridge pup for not much more than 1 p rail and triple shot. It's got a solid body and a 25 1/2 maple neck so it'll twang better anyway. Plus. Who wouldn't want an Incredible Hulk guitar?

Ill still go with the p rails for the ibanez for the humbucker/p 90 tones and I'll just also carry around the crappy hulk guitar for twang.

So since I'm not gonna worry about the twang in the ibanez after all, I'm assuming I should go with regular rail inward orientation for best p 90 and humbucker tones, right?
 
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