RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Still polysol like the aph1/2, or something else?
Wire type in slash 2.0?
- Thread starter RayBarbeeMusic
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RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Yeah specs don't really say. Polysol has a very distinctive response, so if not still that they would be very different than the APHs, aside from just more turns.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
I'm sure there is other ways they could tweak the pickups to make them sound different from the APH-1's. Yeah, the poly wire would mean they'd have some things in common, but they could also tweak the winding pattern.
IME, the APH-1 are kinda creamy with some top-end sparkle and some low-mid warmth.
The Slash by comparison is bright, cutting, and kinda lean in the lows.
I'm sure they designed them to have things in common, but to me, they're not just overwound APH-1's.
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RayBarbeeMusic
New member
To me aph2b do come across as overwound aph-1b, but that's good. A little less open and more focused than aph-1, but that works in some guitars. What they share is the wire type and the response it gives. Normally that many turns with PE and A2 starts to sound slow to me, but with poly, it works.
Poly has a very distinctive attack envelope that has a very fast response feel.. wind the same pickup with the same magnet, turns, and tension with PE42 and it's not the same.
9.4k with poly 42 and A2 might work for me; same wind with PE42 and I'd find it a bit slow. Or put A5 in it and get something like a bkp black dog, which comes across to me as brittle and stiff. A2 and poly are a good match in a bridge pickup. A5 and poly work great in the neck position, like jazz or full shred, for the same reasons. Have yet to hear a PE neck bucker I didn't find dull.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
I'm the other way around. I prefer A2 pickups in the neck and A5 in the bridge (if we're talking about vintage output pickups).
I like my bridge bridge-y and my neck neck-y. Hard and biting vs. soft and smooth.
I like my bridge bridge-y and my neck neck-y. Hard and biting vs. soft and smooth.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Not exactly the same. As a former employee I only discuss things that are already disclosed and/or public knowledge, just for factual or educational purposes. So it’s not out of place for me to say that we said it was a different wire when the Slash signature came out. Of course it’s easy to see they’re both poly, but when you use different insulation thickness, thicker insulation puts more space between the turns and delivers some openness qualities that you’d get from a scatter wound coil that also is manipulating the space between turns and layers. I have no knowledge or insight on the 2.0 version though.
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Yes absolutely RE the insulation. Assuming the same dielectric, more distance between conductors = less capacitance, more "open", "bright", etc tone for a given amount of turns. I'm guessing the APH-2 had the thicker insulation to keep it from getting too dark with the extra 10% ish turns on it?
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
I only like A5 in the bridge as the turns go up. I've never liked the humbucker neck sound, so I mod Jazz or Full Shred necks by removing the poles on one coil under the bass strings and replacing with non-magnetic dummy poles. Tightens things up considerably, much more like a single coil on the low strings, and the poly wire on those winds gives them a bright sound/fast response on the higher strings already. String balance is easily achieved by adjusting the poles on the coil with 6 active.
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Ok so I bought one to check it out.
It's definitely Poly wire.
Tonally, I think it has enough winds that with A2, it's significantly darker/thicker than the APH-2B and has a slower response, like a medium output pickup would (think 12-14k of 43ga types), rather than a PAF type. The APH-2 is probably pushing the limits of # turns with A2 to still retain the fast response and PAF like tone; the 2.0 just didn't work for me with A2; it was like wading through mud. NOTE: If you aren't a pick every note fast but don't use a lot of gain type player, i.e. you either don't pick a lot or use a ton of gain and a bright amp, it might work, but that's not me. Same issue I had with the BroBucker. For me, both were like trying to do a road slalom with a pickup truck instead of a miata. Nice sound for slower stuff, but just not nimble at all.
I subbed in rough cast A4 for the stock A2 and liked that much better. Faster response, not as thick in the low mids. Interestingly, that's the same mag I use to tame the brittleness from a BKP Black dog, which is a similar DCR of Poly wire but stock with rough A5, strikes me like fingernails on glass.
Even with A4, not sure I like it as much as the original APH-2.
It's definitely Poly wire.
Tonally, I think it has enough winds that with A2, it's significantly darker/thicker than the APH-2B and has a slower response, like a medium output pickup would (think 12-14k of 43ga types), rather than a PAF type. The APH-2 is probably pushing the limits of # turns with A2 to still retain the fast response and PAF like tone; the 2.0 just didn't work for me with A2; it was like wading through mud. NOTE: If you aren't a pick every note fast but don't use a lot of gain type player, i.e. you either don't pick a lot or use a ton of gain and a bright amp, it might work, but that's not me. Same issue I had with the BroBucker. For me, both were like trying to do a road slalom with a pickup truck instead of a miata. Nice sound for slower stuff, but just not nimble at all.
I subbed in rough cast A4 for the stock A2 and liked that much better. Faster response, not as thick in the low mids. Interestingly, that's the same mag I use to tame the brittleness from a BKP Black dog, which is a similar DCR of Poly wire but stock with rough A5, strikes me like fingernails on glass.
Even with A4, not sure I like it as much as the original APH-2.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Interesting. BKP Black Dog is one of my all-time favorites, as-is. Doesn't seem that bright in my LP. I also like the Jazz 2.0 suggestion. I have a Jazz set in my SG for years now, not really leaving, but yeah i could hear it using a little more push and perhaps some edge off the top.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
I don't think the A2P or the Slash are meant to be PAF-types in anything other than output.
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Not my first rodeo. I've used hundreds of different pickups and there are over 1k pickups under my roof right now. So I've compared potted/unpotted, hand vs machine, etc etc etc.
Still have yet to hear any PE humbucker neck, potted or unpotted, hand or machine wound, that I thought responded in a way I liked.
Also, hand winding is like "tastes like chicken". The result depends on a lot of things: tension, pattern, etc. I've directly compared unpotted, hand wound, poly wire, very close turn # neck humbucker from a well known maker to the jazz and full shred neck, and the hand wound was both darker and slower, in spite of internet dogma regarding potting and hand wound.
freefrog
Well-known member
I don't know if your BKP are covered and what is the wiring in your LP but IME, different subjective experiences with the named pickups might come at least partly from that... Covers bring Foucault currents... Wiring in a LP often exhibits a high stray capacitance - going up to more than 1nF if the moisture of wood goes into the cotton insulation of braided wire, according to the lab experiments of the GITEC... Both factors darken the tone but also slower and flatten the attack of hand wound coils, whose scattered layers and absence of potting often (= granted, not always) cause a very low inner capacitance (with the downside that hand winding can also lower the Q factor and affect the response like a tone control permanently lowered of a few steps, but it's another question and can be corrected by pots of a higher resistance or no-load pots, anyway)...
The same coils without covers and associated to a low capacitance wiring might exhibit a "naturally" fast and peaky attack, especially with a magnet favoring that - I've tried once some hand wound Skatterbrane's with short A5's in such conditions and they were just unbearingly bright. Once fitted with "slower" magnets (UOA5), covered and paired with a LP style wiring in another instrument, they lost their edginess but kept their clarity and became very nice to my ears...
That's the kind of reasons why the luthier for whom I've worked, a pickups geek having measured 10 000+ transducers in his carreer, was nevertheless sarcastic with me when I evoked pickups out of context or on the basis of one single factor (weither it was wiring insulation or something else)... there's definitively a challenging complexity of interactions around these "simple" things. The more I learn, the less I've the feeling to know, personally. I'm conscious it leads me to ramble in an unrequested way sometimes. Sorry at least for that... ;-)
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Mine is uncovered, 50's wiring, LP Studio satin, chambered body. I might have actually bought the BlackDog from RayBarbee. I tend to keep everything on 10, however. I thought it was the RC mag that softened the top end.
freefrog
Well-known member
I can understand that.
Not exclusive of the factors that I evoked (wiring capacitance at least if there are no covers)... Just adds a "magnetic" layer to this complexity that I was mentioning. ;-)RayBarbeeMusic
New member
I can understand that.
The braided wire in a LP can definitely cause a loss of highs due to capacitance. I've measured it over 1nf in some. I generally rewire all my LPs with mogami coax, which is much lower (and more predictable) capacitance. It's usually like taking a blanket off the tone.
I still have an A4 black dog in one LP. The stock magnet came across, not necessarily too bright, but brittle, and it gave the guitar a very stiff feel. Like it boosted the very high presence frequencies too much.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Would you have a part # for that cable?
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