Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

[JimmyO]

So I posted a while back about how I wasn't getting along with the Burstbuckers in my Epiphone Joe Perry Boneyard, and I ordered a 50s style wiring harness from Mojotone. Yesterday I was in my local music store and they had a nice nickel covered pearly gates set so I bought them and last night wired them all in the guitar. I usually do most of my own wiring but I'm no wiring expert, I usually just follow the diagrams and cross my fingers.

I wired everything per the mojotone diagram, following the pickup wiring colors on the seymour duncan diagrams. I plug the guitar in and there is no sound from the pickups. I think the pots and switch are working, because there is a slight background hum as expected and when I touch the strings it goes away, and when I lower the volume the hum gets quieter until the pot is off and the guitar is silent.

I've checked the wiring a few times, and am looking for anywhere that the hot connections could be touching a ground. I think i wired it per 50's style, with the hot connection from the pickup (black wire) on the first lug and the wire from the switch and capacitor on the second lug. I've tried to take some photos, and have included the wiring diagram I am following. I have a repair guy in town that I could take it to but I'm sure it is probably something simple i am overlooking.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Harhash]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Check the connections of your switch and your jack, are you sure that you didn't invert your jack wires?

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Check the connections of your switch and your jack, are you sure that you didn't invert your jack wires?

Will do. I currently have the ground wire from the switch going to the inner output jack connection, with the hot wire from the switch going to the outer jack connection. However I'm going to remove the 3 way switch and check to see if any of the wires are shorting etc by playing it with the switch out of the guitar.

I also checked the pickups by touching the hot connection with my instrument cable connected to an amplifier and tapped the pickup pole pieces with a screwdriver and got a reassuring tapping noise coming through the amp. Using the 3 way switch while doing this selected the pickups the right way, and the volume controls worked, so I'm pretty sure the hardware is good and it's just how I've wired it. I also checked it against my other les paul that also has a mojotone harness and the wiring looks about the same, except on the new harness the 3 way switch has 2 ground cables coming from the switch - one to solder on the back of a pot, and the other to go to the output jack - maybe i've messed something up here?

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Well, after switching the jack leads around the hum became worse, so the original way was right. Went over all the wiring again and still no luck so I'm admitting defeat and will be taking it to someone smarter than I am. Shame this is the first time i haven't been able to fix something myself, but that is why there are good guitar techs. Was hoping to hear how those pearly gates sound, but will have to wait a little longer i guess.

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Sometimes it's best to take it all apart again then start over? I know it's a PIA but it could be something as simple as a wire strand touching something it shouldn't or a bad solder joint? If its a joint my guess it's going to have something to do with the hot pwr. lead probably someplace around the switch? You could try to rewire the switch before taking it to a tech, it will only cost you about 15 mins??? It sounds like your harness is working as it should but I've bought several harnesses from Mojotone & Madison's, sometimes the harnesses are just junk? They will send a new one without a lot of hassle but I'd check your hot lead & ground connections @ the switch first. Also try wiggling the wires around while its plugged in, if its a short you should be able to hear it?

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

It looks like you have the center lugs grounded to the pot case on the tones, which is right. And I can see the caps to the outer lugs on the tone. But I cant see what's up with the outer lugs on the other end of the tones. What's up with those? They should be open ... not grounded to the case and not connected to anything.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Sometimes it's best to take it all apart again then start over? I know it's a PIA but it could be something as simple as a wire strand touching something it shouldn't or a bad solder joint? If its a joint my guess it's going to have something to do with the hot pwr. lead probably someplace around the switch? You could try to rewire the switch before taking it to a tech, it will only cost you about 15 mins??? It sounds like your harness is working as it should but I've bought several harnesses from Mojotone & Madison's, sometimes the harnesses are just junk? They will send a new one without a lot of hassle but I'd check your hot lead & ground connections @ the switch first. Also try wiggling the wires around while its plugged in, if its a short you should be able to hear it?

Wiggled all the wires, and even tried playing with the switch and output jack out of their cavities in case some wires were getting pushed together when installed. No sound came out, but a little cracking noise happened when i touched the connectors on the Caps, but other than than completely quiet touching and wiggling all the other wires.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

"It looks like you have the center lugs grounded to the pot case on the tones, which is right. And I can see the caps to the outer lugs on the tone. But I cant see what's up with the outer lugs on the other end of the tones. What's up with those? They should be open ... not grounded to the case and not connected to anything."


Yes center lug on the tones are grounded to the pot case, bottom lug is connecting the caps to the center lug of the volume pot. The other outer lug is actually clipped off, so it is not able to contact anything.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

The only difference i can see compared to the previous wiring harness that I received last year, is that the previous one has a small resistor going between the first two lugs of the volume pots, and this one does not. On this one the first lug is connected to the hot pickup wire, and the center lug is connected to the Cap and the switch, and the other outer lug is grounded to the pot case. Do i need that resistor, or any connection going between the first two lugs on the volume pot? I have seen diagrams both showing the resistor version, and the version without which is how the harness is currently wired. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Going by your photo of the wiring diagram, it looks like a cap with a parallel resistor between the outer and center lug of the volumes. I am assuming that this is what you are referring to. No, you don't need it. It's just a simple treble bleed "filter" that helps retain the treble when you roll back the volume. It makes sense that it would not be included with the "50's" harness because with 50's wiring, turning down the volume doesn't attenuate the treble to the degree that it does with modern wiring.

It's a little hard to make out but I cant see anything in the control cavity that looks off. That leaves the switch and the jack. If I see it right, In the grey bundle that goes back to the switch ... Red and Green connect to the center volume pot lugs. So, those should go back to the toggle signal (bridge + neck) contacts. White and black look like they go directly to the jack. So, the white to the center signal contact of the switch and black to the ground lug on the switch. I see another black wire in the cavity soldered to the tone pot case, which I assume is bridge ground.

So ... is there a physical ground connection from the toggle switch to one of the pot cases?

Just going by what I can see, that may be missing? If so, you can jump from the jack ground to one of the pot cases.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Dangit! Pearlies in a Les Paul are just heavenly (<= see what I did there????)

Get this thing fixed and give us a tone report ASAP!!!!

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Dangit! Pearlies in a Les Paul are just heavenly (<= see what I did there????)

Get this thing fixed and give us a tone report ASAP!!!!

Well I broke out the soldering iron one more time and went round making sure all the hot and ground connection had a nice connection with no cold solder joints. Plugged it in and.............nothing. Ahhhhhh. Well almost nothing. I noticed there is a really low weak signal coming through. I stepped on an OD pedal and it increased the volume and was able to get a really weak clean tone and was able to switch between pickups and use the volume controls etc. I also noticed that lowering the tone control dulls the tone but also almost shuts off the volume when it is all the way down. Both pickups are providing the same output.

From all this I am thinking - The pickups, pots and switch are probably working. I've probably wired the output jack the right way, since I tried the other way and there was no sound and a lot of buzz. As far as i can tell i have wired it correct per the schematic and other diagrams i've found on line.

If anyone could help me with what may be the problem, based on the symptoms I'd appreciate it, and would be able to provide Aceman his tone report (after getting over the excitement of getting any real tone out of the guitar).

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Where does the toggle switch ground lug connect?

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Where does the toggle switch ground lug connect?

In the wire bundle coming from the switch there are 5 wires - white is hot and goes to the switch, green is the neck pickup and goes to the first lug of the neck volume pot, red is the bridge pickup and goes to the first lug of the bridge volume pot, and then there are two black wires. Per the diagram one of these wires goes to the back of one of the pots and the other goes to the grounded connection of the output jack. I've been thinking about this, as there is one black wire on the switch going to two black wires at the other end of the wire bundle. I have tried swapping both black wires, and also tried grounding both to the back of a pot and running a new ground wire from the pot to the output jack. This did nothing so i put it back to the configuration in the diagram.

I have the ground wire from the bridge grounded to the back of the bridge tone pot, and have soldered one of the black wires form the toggle switch to the same location. You can see the two black wires soldered to the bridge tone pot, one is the ground from the bridge and one is from the switch.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

In the wire bundle coming from the switch there are 5 wires - white is hot and goes to the switch, green is the neck pickup and goes to the first lug of the neck volume pot, red is the bridge pickup and goes to the first lug of the bridge volume pot, and then there are two black wires. Per the diagram one of these wires goes to the back of one of the pots and the other goes to the grounded connection of the output jack. I've been thinking about this, as there is one black wire on the switch going to two black wires at the other end of the wire bundle. I have tried swapping both black wires, and also tried grounding both to the back of a pot and running a new ground wire from the pot to the output jack. This did nothing so i put it back to the configuration in the diagram.

I have the ground wire from the bridge grounded to the back of the bridge tone pot, and have soldered one of the black wires form the toggle switch to the same location. You can see the two black wires soldered to the bridge tone pot, one is the ground from the bridge and one is from the switch.

I couldn't tell in the photo if there was one or two blacks coming from the wire bundle. I thought one may have been ground from the bridge. So, it sounds like you have that wired right. Do you have a meter? If so, I would check continuity between the ground lug of the switch and where those two black wires connect (pot and jack). It's always possible that they messed up tying those grounds together in the harness. If that checks out ok, I would check everything else with the meter.

Keep the faith. This is gonna be something simple. If both pickups are dead I'm playing the lottery.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

I couldn't tell in the photo if there was one or two blacks coming from the wire bundle. I thought one may have been ground from the bridge. So, it sounds like you have that wired right. Do you have a meter? If so, I would check continuity between the ground lug of the switch and where those two black wires connect (pot and jack). It's always possible that they messed up tying those grounds together in the harness. If that checks out ok, I would check everything else with the meter.

Keep the faith. This is gonna be something simple. If both pickups are dead I'm playing the lottery.

Thanks for your help and suggestions. I'll have to invest in a meter, but i guess i could also run a fresh couple of wires as the connection of those black wires is somewhere in the bundle and not easy for me to check. I really should get a meter. And yes i trust the pickups much more than my wiring

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

One more thing. And this is a long shot. If you removed an import toggle and replaced it with a Switchcraft toggle, they are wired different. On the imports, the signals are all on the same side. The thicker ground lug is on the opposite side. With the Switchraft, the ground lug sits between the neck and bridge signal lugs. The signal out is on the opposite side. Your wiring diagram shows the switchcraft wiring. As I stated, it's a long shot and no offense intended but I know that I have messed up some pretty simple stuff before. Also make sure that the signal wires aren't touching that ground lug that sits between them. Some types of wire insulation can pull back pretty far when soldering, exposing the wire and then a stray strand can cause a short.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

One more thing. And this is a long shot. If you removed an import toggle and replaced it with a Switchcraft toggle, they are wired different. On the imports, the signals are all on the same side. The thicker ground lug is on the opposite side. With the Switchraft, the ground lug sits between the neck and bridge signal lugs. The signal out is on the opposite side. Your wiring diagram shows the switchcraft wiring. As I stated, it's a long shot and no offense intended but I know that I have messed up some pretty simple stuff before. Also make sure that the signal wires aren't touching that ground lug that sits between them. Some types of wire insulation can pull back pretty far when soldering, exposing the wire and then a stray strand can cause a short.

Great suggestion, I've taken the switch out a couple of times and couldn't see anything out of place. The switch and pots, caps etc were wired by Mojotone and all I needed to do was wire the ground and hot wire from the switch to the output Jack, wire the ground from the bridge and switch to the back of a pot, and wire in the pickups. It's a lot simpler than some of the from scratch wiring I've done. I'll try to pick up a multimeter later today, and if still no luck I may either unwire everything and start over, or enlist my local repair guy. Really impatient to hear those new pickups.

 

[Detroitblues]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

I had this problem recently on a pickup install. It turned out, I melted the leads together in the pickup. It was a GFS P90 whose outer metal sheathing was just for looks. Try disconnecting the pickups one a time so you only have one connected at a time. See if its the pickups.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: Wired in new pearly gates set and no sound

Ok, it works now. It was something pretty dumb on my part. Yesterday I had a local luthier/guitar repairman take a quick look and he checked the wiring....yes good solder joints...........yes correctly wired...........taped red and white pickups wires........undoes the tape.......no solder.........doh!!! After a couple of quick solders and a Johnnie Walker scotch transaction it was up and running. Oh well we live and learn. For anyone living in the LA/Ventura county area i can recommend a great guitar repair guy.

So I was able to play the guitar tonight after yesterdays excitement of getting sound out of it again. My initial thoughts are I really like the Pearly Gates set in the this Les Paul. I still need to spend more time with the guitar and play in a band setting, but the initial range of tones has re-established my confidence in Alnico II magnets. The PGs are way better than the previous Burstbucker 3 in the bridge (too harsh, clanky and thin), and Burstbucker 2 in the Neck (very dark, muddy and soft). The Pearly gates neck is fantastic, nice and juicy, with a Flutey tone that has some bite and 3 dimensional quality. The bridge is not as bright as i had feared. It can get bright but it is still smooth and not harsh. Clean i was getting some great country tones and with gain it was very 70s classic rock and texas blues. Pinched harmonics are really easy to get. Both pickups have a great clarity and definition, while also having character and personality. Will be looking forward to spending more time playing tomorrow and getting the pickup heights optimized. Very impressed so far.