Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

[Polyinstrumentalism]

Hey everyone, I have a ash-bodied Strat copy with a maple neck that originally had a factory-installed Kahler Flyer in it. I'm planning on swapping this out with a new Kahler 23xx with some glass teflon rollers but i'm on the fence on what kind of cam to get. I like the idea of brass allegedly being "warmer" sounding but also I wonder how dark it might get. I've heard it said that the steel cams are for the "shredder happy" tone, but i've also read a review that said a steel cam might retain the typical Strat tone the best (although in the context of using it with brass rollers).

Further complicating things is that I know Kerry King uses a brass cam... so much for steel being the shredder's choice?

Does anyone have any experience with the different cam materials? I'm a bit of an eclectic player, but if I had to put my finger on a single previously recorded tone that I love i'd pick Gilmour's Black Strat.

I get the impression that brass lends itself towards a more balanced tone, whereas steel gives things a bit more of a lift in the higher frequencies... and who even knows about aluminum... I'd like a tone that can do a lot of things well I guess. I also wonder if having a flatter response might be an advantage if i start using a guitar modeler like Helix to dress up the tone more... honestly it's a lot of speculation for me.

Any and all perspectives, recommendations and opinions are welcome; i'm just looking for input so that I can make a more educated decision before I drop the huge chunk of change that these things cost. :-O I'm pretty set on getting the teflon glass rollers though due to their being more friendly towards higher-gauge strings. They say teflon glass saddles have a "mid-hump", but tonal descriptions of the cam materials seem to be a little vague.

Thanks!

~ Scott

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

Just get brass and be done with it.

 

[Polyinstrumentalism]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

Just get brass and be done with it.

:18: A concise yet wise suggestion. Noted, but i'm still curious what the options are, tonally speaking.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

If you're into David Gilmour's tone, why are we talking about Kahler, or any locking system?

 

[Polyinstrumentalism]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

If you're into David Gilmour's tone, why are we talking about Kahler, or any locking system?

Because it already has the route in place for the system. And the old one broke (crappy pot metal on the old flyers?).

I like the tone. But it's not a goal. But it wouldn't be bad if it went in that direction.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

For completely vintage sounding hardware, I don't think you can get better or get more accurate parts than from Callaham Guitars, and he uses cold rolled steel for everything but saddles I believe. That is something to at least factor into your decision if you want the most accurate strat sound available.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

Scott, welcome to the forum.

Now that the pleasantries are out of the way, let us speak frankly. You are talking about swapping one complex (some might say tone sucking) bridge for another. I don’t think cam material is going to be the point of contention

Leave the flyer and talk about what the guitar sounds like now and what you would like to change.

 

[Polyinstrumentalism]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

Scott, welcome to the forum.

Now that the pleasantries are out of the way, let us speak frankly. You are talking about swapping one complex (some might say tone sucking) bridge for another. I don’t think cam material is going to be the point of contention

Leave the flyer and talk about what the guitar sounds like now and what you would like to change.

The ball end anchor for the G string snapped off on its own one night, leaving the guitar unplayable in a traditional context. So I would like to change the fact that I can't play my guitar anymore. I don't want to cut a new route for a different tremolo system, so I think it's reasonable for me to want to put in a new Kahler system for the existing setup. Kahler claims the 23xx is a drop in replacement for most of their old systems. My goal is not to chase a certain tone, or change things out of any sense of dissatisfaction. It is purely functional.

The last bridge seemed to be made of pot metal, or some sort of unholy amalgam, or else it wouldn't have self-destructed that way. So I'm hoping the tone benefits from some real metal since their quality standards seem to be better today.

I'm trying to make an educated decision based on the available options. Whammy parts gives a great description of the different saddles but nowhere on the internet is there a satisfactory description of the tonal differences between the cam materials. So I'm hoping someone may have some experience or insight with that. It would be nice to get the info out there if nothing else.

I liked the Kahler just fine before it broke. I'm not interested in being convinced to use a different trem system. Thanks.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

If real metal is your criteria, brass is a real metal.

I sold and installed (and wrote about installing) a bunch of these back in the 80's. I found very little diff between the brass and steel blocks, except for the tiniest fattening of mids with brass.

 

[Polyinstrumentalism]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

I'm well aware of the fact that I won't be getting it to sound like a Fender Strat. Different things sound different, and I'm OK with that. Furthermore, I'm not the type of person who buys into the notion that anything is "supposed" to sound a certain way. But I do have the opportunity to guide it in one direction or another based on the decisions that I'm making during this replacement process.

 

[Polyinstrumentalism]

Re: Wondering what Kahler cam material to mix with Teflon Glass rollers...

If real metal is your criteria, brass is a real metal.

I sold and installed (and wrote about installing) a bunch of these back in the 80's. I found very little diff between the brass and steel blocks, except for the tiniest fattening of mids with brass.

That is useful. Thank you, I appreciate you sharing your experience.