You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

[DankStar]

For some reason, as I get older, I really wig out on song writing. I'll put something together, and then I'm like, "I should have put things in a different order, or added a slow part somewhere." Or as is the case with a current tune, which ended up only being like 2 minutes long, I'm wanting to make it longer just for the sake of making it longer. Someone talk some sense into me! I mean, it's supposed to be fun, right?! Sometimes I turn my hobby into a torture.

 

[Jay 77]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

The Ramones had no problems. Nothing but two minute songs all the time.

Actually, I tend to run into the same problems as you. My stuff generally hits 2 1/2 minutes on a regular basis. It's just a matter of feeling out the song, and waiting for other inspiration to hit.

 

[DankStar]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

The Ramones had no problems. Nothing but two minute songs all the time.

Actually, I tend to run into the same problems as you. My stuff generally hits 2 1/2 minutes on a regular basis. It's just a matter of feeling out the song, and waiting for other inspiration to hit.

I guess all those "golden oldies" used to be pretty short too. Those "Good Vibrations" type songs back in the day. They went right to the hook chorus a couple of times and then they ended. And those are classics. I think it's a modern mentality to want to make 4 hour movies, 8 part epic books, 10 minute songs, etc. I guess I'm just not into the epic thing. My attention span is too short.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[RW James]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

1. It's perfectly all right to put a little bit of agony into your songwriting - you should be wigging out about things like structure. It's perfectly natural for a song to take months or even years to come to fruitition. The one day songs are rare.

2. Song length has often been dictated by AM radio. A 3 minute song was optimum. Four minutes would never get played. The shorter the better -then you could get more commercials in. Song length was also limited by how much could be fit onto a 45rpm vinyl.

But playing live - it was hard to play a bunch of three minute songs - enter the extended guitar solo - or album versions.

But basically, when you've said eveything you want to say - the song is over. At least that is how it works if you are writing lyrics. But since a song also includes music - that needs to be factored in as well. For me, the arrangement is a big part of what I do and that will often take a 3 minute song to four minutes.

 

[Perry D]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

just play it how it goes. dont worry about length. if it takes 10 mins. who cares. if its only 2 mins. who cares. just go with what feels right.

 

[Mincer]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

i think if you want to write songs for radio, you have to play the rules. if not, who cares? I have songs that are a minute and a half long. i also have songs that are an hour (!) long.

 

[Fresno Bob]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

i think if you want to write songs for radio, you have to play the rules. if not, who cares? I have songs that are a minute and a half long. i also have songs that are an hour (!) long.

+1

don't be discouraged by being able to write short songs. You have to exorcise the demons sometimes to get to the meat. It will all come in time. As you write you'll learn and become aware of your patterns. That's the first step. The second step is to changing it up a bit, and doing something out of the ordinary (for you).


Hell, my band writes nothing but 10 minute songs and it can take months to complete just one track (It's all instrumental, so that doesn't make it any easier).

 

[Syris]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

Yep, everything said in this thread is helpfull.

My opinion; don't force the song to be longer than it needs to be. Then it gets repetitive and boring.

Perfect example, a little song called "Master of Puppets" by Metallica.
I'm like, "Thank God, it's over", but then in all of it's groan inducing evil, I hear those two words for the millionth time. "MASTER! MASTER!" Just end you stupid song!

Um, yeah :laugh2:

 

[MikeS]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

Or as is the case with a current tune, which ended up only being like 2 minutes long, I'm wanting to make it longer just for the sake of making it longer.

I had this problem, though it was early on in my playing and is something I've grown out of. I can remember when we'd write a song, lay down the demo, look at the timer and realise the tune was under 4 minutes and therefore we needed to make it longer, regardless of how it added to the song. I've also played an outro chorus too many times in the name of making the song longer.

I try not to agonize too much about song writing, especially when my intention is to make a song that is about the here and now. Those tunes are best left alone once the inspiration or mood behind it has gone away, IMO.

 

[Jay 77]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

Yep, everything said in this thread is helpfull.

My opinion; don't force the song to be longer than it needs to be. Then it gets repetitive and boring.

Perfect example, a little song called "Master of Puppets" by Metallica.
I'm like, "Thank God, it's over", but then in all of it's groan inducing evil, I hear those two words for the millionth time. "MASTER! MASTER!" Just end you stupid song!

Um, yeah :laugh2:

Do not slander "Master". That's sacriledge. (you do have a point though).

 

[Jay 77]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

I've also played an outro chorus too many times in the name of making the song longer.

Also known as..... The Police. Every single song repeats at the end & just goes on and on....

 

[DankStar]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

awesome perspectives!

 

[Osensei]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

Man it's just one of those things! You know?! There was a period in popular music when nobody wrote anything simple. I'm speaking of the Jazz/Rock era when you had groups like Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Yes, the Mahavisnu Orchestra and the like. For ions prior to that pop music was relatively simple. Tunes were mainly comprised of a head, a bridge and an improv section after which the artist took it home by restating the head.

Cat's that came along during this experimental phase that I have mentioned earlier seemed to use a "symphonic" arrangement format. In this way they pieced together movements forming complex suites with all sorts of key modulations and thematic diversions. These often abrubt sectional diversions served as a substitute for the lenghty improvisational sections that were so prevalent in the music that predated it. Although there was sparing use of improv as well.

If this is truly your "thing" then I suggest you study some form and analysis in the context of symphonic arrangement. Also, as an interesting example of how this type of stuff is still being used today, I suggest you check out Pat Metheny's new CD - The Way Up!

From a Zen perspective: If it's your thing then accept it! Don't try to be something you're not! Rather follow your own road to fulfillment!

Cheers

 

[Artie]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

Steven Spielberg said it best: "I make the kind of movies I want to see."

Do the same with your music. No matter how mediocre you think it is, create music that you enjoy listening to. Someone else will like it too. We aren't as different as some would say.

 

[sufferinrewind]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

I used to have a solo experimental thing going and my songs were rarely under 7 minutes (I suppose that's what happens when more recent Tool albums are some of your biggest inspirations). Most were over 5 minutes. I had one or two rare ones that were 4 minutes or under. But, as Artie said, I enjoyed them (at the time). You have to play and write stuff that you'd enjoy. You'll never be happy if you don't. I'm playing mostly classic rock and slow blues, and I'm having a blast playing and writing.

 

[Jay 77]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

Recently I was in a bit of a rut when it came to writing rock songs. I shifted focus and wrote some electronic house/techno stuff using Reason and had a blast doing it. Somehow, it managed to clear my palate and I've been coming up with some solid rock again. To echo the sentiment here, just write what you like and what makes you happy. If that's the In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida for this generation, then great. If it's a two minute, three chord punker, then kudos to you. Just like Triumph said, follow your heart.

 

[CGord]

Re: You ever wig out on song writing or song length?

I'm very much an amateur at piecing together riffs (I hesitate to call it "songwriting", maybe eventually). It's all very simple stuff; intro, a couple of verse riffs, chorus riff, then I'll repeat until I think it's too much. So far they've all been in the 2:30 - 3:30 range, give or take.