Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

[some_dude]

I've been reading up on Lamb of God recently and I'm wondering how they use the Compressor/Gate in their live rack? Particularly since they also have a Hush noise gate in there as well.

In interviews they say they use it to tighten riffing. That makes sense for the gate, but I don't get how a compressor helps here.

[cronnin]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

Hm...

Noise gate has no impact on tightness. It just erases hum and buzz that would be on while you're not playings.

Compressor on the other hand flattens the input signal, so it flattens the dynamic of the guitar volume before the overdrive stage. You don't have to worry how you stroke, otherwise you'd have to be concentrated to stoke equally hard to get the same sound out of your amp.

When you get used to lot of distortion and compression, it takes a while to get your stroking right if you want to play something JTM styled.

[Van Noord]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

They use something like a dbx compressor. It basically maintains a threshold to prevent excessive high peaks and low flubs.

[some_dude]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

Hm...

Noise gate has no impact on tightness. It just erases hum and buzz that would be on while you're not playings.

You need to spend more time with a noise gate...

I avoided them for years. I considered them a 'band-aid solution', and that it was better to fix the source of the noise than use a gate to cover it up. Then I was having issues with feedback and decided to pick one up as a band-aid solution. I was surprised at how good a job it did of tightening riff work up.

[some_dude]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

Anyway, I've been trying to find more info and the gist of what I've found is that they use a DBX 266XL Compressor/Gate and it seems they only use it for the gate function. How accurate this is I don't know... haven't been able to find many details on it. To me it doesn't make a lot of sense however as they both have Hush Super C gates in their rack as well.... you'd figure they'd have one or the other and not both.

[Van Noord]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

Maybe one gate is pre preamp and the other is post preamp.

[idsnowdog]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

This is a rather simplified explanation from a non-engineer:

Most rack units are compressor/limiters. The limiter works by setting a db limit where anything above that limit will be attenuated with either a hard knee or soft knee. A hard knee is a square wave clip, while a soft knee is rounded and will allow the input to bloom/swell a little to preserve dynamics. Both knee settings are useful and a hard knee can be used to put a hard edge on sounds. Pantera is a good example of hard knee limiting.

The second setting is the compression ratio. The compression ratio is the amount of input signal used that is compressed/re-amplified and then fed back into the finished signal. If you use a high compression ratio the sound becomes less dynamic and sustains longer. The compression ratio is useful because it fattens the sound by reducing signal fluctuations.

In extreme cases you can use a compressor/limiter as a noise gate because they use the exact same compression/limiting processes. The noise gate is basically a compressor/limiter in reverse. Rather than cutting off a signal above a set db limit, a noise gate cuts things off below a set db limit. A noise gate can also be used to cut a signal off after a certain length of time to reduce feedback.

If you balance a noise gate with a compressor/limiter correctly you can play at very high volumes and distortion levels. What your doing is attenuating strong signals, smoothing out signal fluctuations and then using the gate to set noise thresholds. With the gate your setting a noise floor where anything below a threshold is considered noise and a signal length after which the signal is considered noise. Your playing around with ratios and timing to create an idealized signal.

[some_dude]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

Hmmm....

I think I understand...

I just experimented with that using an OD in front of a noise gate (set to hard knee).

Without the OD I couldn't use hard knee compression on solos as it would cut notes off early, even with the threshold set to minimum.

With the OD the extra compression would hold the gate open longer so my notes would sustain longer, but the second I lifted my finger it would cut the note hard so I'd get zero feedback between notes, as well as a reduction of fretting noise as I moved around the fretboard with high gain.

Would a simple compressor, like an MXR DynaComp be considered a compressor/limiter due to having a knob that controls compression and a knob that controls peak output? Or is limiting a more complex process than that?

[cronnin]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

I never use gate for that purpose, but I believe you get results.
High threshold and short hold/release time can probably make fast and heavy distorted riffs sound distinct.
Kinda ... separate tones from one another to make an impression of more precise robotic playing (from a big mush what it was in start).


Anyway...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_gate

"A noise gate can sometimes (and to varying success) be used to 'tighten up' the playing of musicians.
If, for example, in a recording the kick drum is quite 'in time' but the bass player is slightly ahead,
controlling the bass guitar via a gate whose sidechain is fed by the kick drum signal can pull the two sounds together."

[idsnowdog]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

Hmmm....

I think I understand...

I just experimented with that using an OD in front of a noise gate (set to hard knee).

Without the OD I couldn't use hard knee compression on solos as it would cut notes off early, even with the threshold set to minimum.

With the OD the extra compression would hold the gate open longer so my notes would sustain longer, but the second I lifted my finger it would cut the note hard so I'd get zero feedback between notes, as well as a reduction of fretting noise as I moved around the fretboard with high gain.

Would a simple compressor, like an MXR DynaComp be considered a compressor/limiter due to having a knob that controls compression and a knob that controls peak output? Or is limiting a more complex process than that?

I have never cared for compressor pedals. I just don't think compressor pedals do very much, although I haven't tried that many either.

I use the compressor/limiter setting on my Yamaha GEP50 because it is pretty transparent and the digital readout makes it easy to store and record settings for latter use. With the memory settings option I can use different settings for different applications. For instance if your playing something clean you may want a soft knee with minimal limiting, this would take away boominess while letting notes bloom. Or you may want hard knee peak limiting and heavier compression for distorted rhythms to keep levels consistent. With a dedicated compressor/limiter you usually have dials and setting them up the exact same way twice can be tricky. Also it's not like you can switch back and forth between saved settings.

[some_dude]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

I find compressors are good for fattening up the thinner strings. Really good for making single notes and diads pop out without the thinning out/brightening up that OD pedals tend to cause.

Trade off is that they can really mess with any type of chording.

[cronnin]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

Maybe it's better to get a tighter amp?
Some 6L6 150W can do for me

How would you guys define tight, anyway?
Lets say, to someone who doesn't play guitar or is just a beginner?

[some_dude]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

It's not a matter of tightening up the amp, it's more a matter of cleaning up the signal coming from the guitar. The tightest amp in the world will sound like a mess if you feed it a messy signal.

[everdrone]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

Periphery and Pantera say otherwise. Given that I've heard extremely tight breakdowns on some songs that I have heard from LOG... They are most likely using a gate.

ya I saw a recent periphery video and they give a breakdown of their rigz

they use compressor AND noisegate for their chugga chugga riffage, they keep those pedals on the whole time. I saw them live and the mix sounds so-so to me live.

I use both for all my recordings as well. but for live stuff I dont like them cause I play a diff style - sabb style where the notes bloom and feedback and sustain are critical elements;

for the death metal bands that I see that overprocess and use EMGs it is hard for me to hear the notes the guitarist plays - does not sit well in the mix live and I just hear distortion/noise. some amps have more natural compression than others.

Im sure your mark V has alot of compression. but the compressor/noisegate would help adding attack and chug, while silencing noise; I would shy away from this however. I recommend getting a boss multieffx if you want to experiment with this. if you are putting alot of distortion through your factory standard gibson pups it gets noisy!

[some_dude]

Re: Lamb of God.... Compressor/Gate?

I use both for all my recordings as well. but for live stuff I dont like them cause I play a diff style - sabb style where the notes bloom and feedback and sustain are critical elements;

Iommi uses both a compressor and noise gate live. It's where I first got the idea of using a compressor for leads years ago and I generally prefer it to using an overdrive pedal.

Im sure your mark V has alot of compression. but the compressor/noisegate would help adding attack and chug, while silencing noise; I would shy away from this however. I recommend getting a boss multieffx if you want to experiment with this. if you are putting alot of distortion through your factory standard gibson pups it gets noisy!

I'm not really sold on the idea of using a compressor/gate for rhythm. I think it'll loose cut/attack in a band mix. I will keep the gate though... I think it's an excellent tool to have on hand when it comes to controlling feedback.

I will continue to experiment with the compressor/gate on lead however. I think it'll work better in that regard since it makes single notes stand out more without adding any more distortion.