New type of EL84: a less loud version.

[The JEM Ghost]

Hi to all!

I have noticed JJ Electronics has introduced a couple of tube types to their catalogue not too long ago, all of them are powertubes.
They started to produce the 6CA7 and 6550 power tubes, but those models were available from other manufacturers already (EH for example), the third model was the one that truly caught my attention, the newly released EL844.

This new JJ EL844 is a direct replacement for EL84 type tubes. This new JJ EL844 puts out less power compared to a regular EL84, while it should keep the same (EL84) sound character.
These new EL844 could be the ideal power tubes for people with EL84 amps that experience the problem that their amp is too loud for what they need. In this case, changing the power tubes from EL84 to EL844 would bring down the volume, while keeping the same (EL84) sound character.
To get an idea, the JJ EL84 puts out a maximum of 12W (per tube), the new JJ EL844 puts out a maximum of 9W (per tube), that's about a quarter less in ouput then a regular EL84.

I thought this info might have been useful to some of you, especialy the ones that are looking to bring the volume down a little, or want pre-amp saturation with less overall volume output!

I was not able to try these tubes out in a personal test, but if any people had the chance to test these EL844 first hand, they are more then welcome to write their opinion down on them!!

[glassman]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

Color me sceptical...

Given that a vast majority of EL84 amps are running the tubes at the ragged edge, dropping plate dissipation capability by 25% seems like asking for trouble.

[FuseG4]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

doesn't sound so useful to me. Why not just buy an attenuator and use the vintage glass I love?

[marvar]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

... or, are these just a run of el84s that didn't meet spec?
Plus, I don't think 3 watts will make that much difference, except for maybe earlier breakup

[idsnowdog]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

I doubt that a 3w difference will mean much in terms of decibels. Although the tube might reach clipping faster.

[Gearjoneser]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

Why would a guy want an even smaller EL-84, when he could have a bigger EL-34...an E-34L?

[The JEM Ghost]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

Haha, that's right Gearjoneser!!
The EL844 concept seems to be the opposite of the E34L's weirdly enough indeed.

Color me sceptical...

Given that a vast majority of EL84 amps are running the tubes at the ragged edge, dropping plate dissipation capability by 25% seems like asking for trouble.

Defenitely not a sceptical remark glassman, but a justified concern! Most EL-84 amps don't have a bias pot to adjust bias, a lot of them are cathode or fixed bias, and I wonder what will happen with the JJEL844's lifespan when put in those amps with no adjustments. Thx for the remark!

I doubt that a 3w difference will mean much in terms of decibels. Although the tube might reach clipping faster.

You could be very much right idsnowdog, the difference in volume (dB) could be not that much, and the effect could manifest itself more on the headroom of the power tubes (EL844 clipping/distorting more early). I was expecting something like a change from 6L6GC or 5881 to 6V6 power tubes in the lower volume I yielded (slight but noticeable) from the 6V6, but as said I did not try the EL844 myself, so you could be very right that the difference in volume is not noticeable over regular EL84's.


I also talked a short word with a local tube distributor about this JJ EL844, and he said it IS DIFFERENT SOUNDING then a regular EL84 (other then what they claim), according to him it's more modern sounding compared to a regular EL84, the EL84 has a stronger and more firm bass response compared to the EL844, making the EL844 a bit more open sounding, without getting harsh. The volume will drop very slightly when switching to EL844, but more noticeable is the decrease in power-amp headroom, making the EL844 distort more early compared to an EL-84.
So maybe it could have a place on the market after all, but I am also very curious about glassman's remark towards these tubes, and the trouble that may arise with it.

[GuitarStv]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

I have an old class A single EL-84 powered amp that I like a lot but needs to be a bit quieter for my current practicing situation. I would give this tube a shot in there . . . more breakup at slightly lower volumes would be ideal for my needs (practicing/recording). Would this tube run hotter in the amp?

[Rich_S]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

My DIY amp runs ECL86's, which are an EL84-ish pentode plus half a 12AX7, sharing a bottle. Because of the close quarters inside, the power rating on the pentode portion is similar to what's advertised for the EL-844. I get about 13 Watts out of a cathode-biased pair. When I built my amp, I used a typical 18 Watter output stage, but had to increase the cathode bias resistor to drop the dissipation (compared to the usual EL84).

I wonder if JJ has performed some magic to make the 844 plug-and-play in a normal cathode- biased EL84 amp? If so, that would be cool to swap you power level without re-baising.

On the other hand, my 13 Watter is still damn loud. I doubt the drop in power is going to reduce the volume much, but it will crunch earlier.

I think it's a good idea. My first reaction was that it would be better if the power drop was more significant - like maybe 50% of what a pair of EL84's could do. But then, we're really getting close to what single-ended EL84 or 6V6 amps put out. The way the 844 is, it kind of slots in between an 18 Watter/AC-15/Lightning/Blues Jr and a Champ. I think that 12-watt zone is a sweet spot - I know at my old church gig a Champ was too small, but my 13 Watter needed a bit of attenuation. (Though a Champ with an efficient 12" probably would have worked.)

In the end, it's another way of fine-tuning tone and volume. By tweaking tubes, speaker efficiency, and an attenuator, there are a lot of ways to dial it in.

[DesertRat]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

Real world review here: I've been using EL844's in my Laney VC30-212 for over 8 months now for a variety of gigs indoors and out. I've had no reliability issues (I do run the volume at moderate levels between 4 &6 on the volume). The output volume is just barely less than the regular EL84s but the tone/breakup has a different character. These tubes do break up a bit earlier and have a "smokey", less pristine feel to them. They're like a slightly weaker EL84 with a hint of 6V6 character. I really like'em and will retube with the same when these wear out. There's a lot of flame warring about these tubes on the Internet, but they work great for me!

[JCM900MkIII]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

EL84 & EL844 compared, soundclip + findings:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/squawk-box/179043-jjs-el84-vs-el844-clips.html

[Gearjoneser]

Re: New type of EL84: a less loud version.

Thanks for the update. I'd pretty much forgotten about them, but they do sound like something that would make my Gibson Goldtone (4 EL-84) amp have an earlier breakup, which is what it needs.