Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

[Low_fidelity2100]

Yep, thats it...Getting ready to order some 12AT7's for the PI stage in my Fenders...Just wondering whether I should bother getting "Balanced Triodes" Tested tubes, or just go with the "normal" ones, haha.

Getting the JAN Phillips 12AT7WC also, if that makes any difference.

[marvar]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Well, it's a can of worms to start this thread-
Here is my observations:
Most NOS tubes are already pretty close, usually much closer than most modern era tubes.
I prefer to use a balanced PI in my amps- I can hear/feel a difference.
Others will say it makes no difference to them, and to be fair, amps don't come with balanced triodes from the factory, unless its a boo-teak amp.
Usually the up charge is only a few dollars more for matched triodes, why not go ahead and get one, see it you can tell a difference. As an added bonus least you know the tube has been somewhat tested.
You'll probably spend that much on coffee in a week, why not get a balanced PI?

[Jeff_H]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

I think it will make a difference in you Fender amp. Usually the cost difference is only $5 or so, so for me it's worth it.

[Low_fidelity2100]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Well, it's a can of worms to start this thread-
Here is my observations:
Most NOS tubes are already pretty close, usually much closer than most modern era tubes.
I prefer to use a balanced PI in my amps- I can hear/feel a difference.
Others will say it makes no difference to them, and to be fair, amps don't come with balanced triodes from the factory, unless its a boo-teak amp.
Usually the up charge is only a few dollars more for matched triodes, why not go ahead and get one, see it you can tell a difference. As an added bonus least you know the tube has been somewhat tested.
You'll probably spend that much on coffee in a week, why not get a balanced PI?

Yeah, if I was buying new production tubes, then I'd have just gone ahead and gotten them balanced, without asking. Simply cause, I'm sure it would make a difference. But being as they were NOS tubes, I wasn't sure whether it was worth bothering with, haha.
I ended up doing just like you suggested...Got 1 balanced, 1 unbalanced...Figure I'll see if I can tell a difference, if I can...then I'll go with Balanced in the future. It was only $2 extra anyways, so whatever. haha.

I think it will make a difference in you Fender amp. Usually the cost difference is only $5 or so, so for me it's worth it.

Yeah, I guess I'll be finding out in a few days here. If theres no difference, I'm out $2 extra...so I guess I won't be able to buy those eight gumballs I was eye balling earlier.

[guitfiddle]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Power tubes don't really age in a perfectly balanced way, so after a while, it wouldn't matter any way.

[LuredMaul]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

The output section of the poweramp isn't balanced so why bother balancing it......unbalanced you may notice even more odd order harmonics than a balanced output.

[crguti]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

A balanced PI is like using non-fat mayo on a bacon double-cheeseburger (my sig )

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Power tubes don't really age in a perfectly balanced way, so after a while, it wouldn't matter any way.

Preamp tubes dont burn out quickly anyways. So if you can have a few years of balanced phase inverter?

I know people who say they cant tell a difference but to me it does. I much prefer balanced triodes in the PI spot

[Koreth]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

The long tail pair phase inverter (the circuit type in your fender) isn't balanced to begin with. Go look at the schematic. One side of the phase inverter has a smaller plate resistor value, giving that side of the circuit less gain. What's the point of putting in a perfectly matched and balanced tube when the circuit it lives in will run it out of balance? Furthermore, if you have one of the older Tweed style Fenders that uses a cathodyne or split-load phase inverter circuit, a balanced 12A*7 is even more pointless, because only a single triode - one half of the tube, does any phase inverting.

In my opinion, as long as both sides of the bottle are within spec, don't waste your money.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Lot of interesting food for thought in this thread!

[marvar]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

I told you this would open a can of worms......
Agreed, some Fender amps only use 1/2 of the triode, my princeton for one- it is pointless to use a matched triode on those type of amps.
The bottom line is- use what you think sounds/feels best.
But unless you try a balanced PI, You really can't make an informed decision as to how it will react in your amp..
I can't understand us players sometimes, we will spend xxx amount of dollars on guitars, pickups, strings, picks, straps, pedals, etc, anything to gain an "edge", but some folks complain about spending $3-5 more on a balanced tube.
The PI is more about feel than tone; how it breaks up, responds, etc.

[LesStrat]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Is this some new way to give a jolt to your private investigator?

[Tonetwister]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Yep, thats it...Getting ready to order some 12AT7's for the PI stage in my Fenders...Just wondering whether I should bother getting "Balanced Triodes" Tested tubes, or just go with the "normal" ones, haha.

Getting the JAN Phillips 12AT7WC also, if that makes any difference.

I just loaded a JAN Philips NOS balanced triodes 12AT7WC into my 1966 Super Reverb in the Phase Inverter slot. I will say that I also loaded in a new JJ 12AX7 into V1 and V2 ... I cannot begin to tell you what these new tubes did for this amp -- mostly, I believe, the PI. Running a 2000 American Series Stratocaster through it, loaded with Dawgtown Custom Shop Alnico III's, the guitar and amp sounded more like a grand piano in the middle and neck positions, than a guitar ... just glorious. Plus, I could run up more BASS without getting MUD. Today I am very happy with it! Hopefully, I will be tomorrow, as well ... But you know how those ear cobblers like to come in while you are sleeping, and change out your hearing system ...

[LLL]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Balanced triodes really only matter to the "gold plated cat turds sound better than regular cat turds" audiophile (expensive all-tube stereo, etc...) crowd.

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Balanced Triodes on a PI...Worth the up charge?

Shut up and play yer guitar.