Clone Pedal Lowdown?

[MetalManiac]

What about Clones of famous vintage pedals?
Open for discussion.
Ive heard some of them sound real close to the real old deal vintage pedals.
Analogman claims the DOD 250+ YJM ( which i just was fortunate to just snag (with the LM471 chip mod) claims his mod sounds EXACTLY like the original.
OTOH< Ive got an quote unquote "exact " circuit copy of the DOD Distortion + Randy Rhoads that doesn't sound too hot...yo gotta believe its that the clone isn't that great.Same with my "exact " BJFE Honeybee Clone.
So whats the real story on clones?
Reason I am asking now primarily is because I am going to sell my big Green Tank Russian Muff for something more pedalboard friendly.
Ive seen clips of Triangle Rams Head Muffs that sound truly close to the prohibitively expensive vintage Muffs that Hendrix played.

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

Just like amps or guitars copies of gear of yesteryear might be good and might not...

If I had a dime for every crappy tweed Fender clone I've tried I coudl buy a collection of vintage tweed...

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

The thing about a clone of a pedal (or an amp or whatever really) is that oyu have to know what the circiut is/was...for example there are LOADS of schematics out there that are wrong or were never updated as changes might have been made by the OEM builder...

After that you have to nail down the right parts, sometimes this is very hard to do and cosats a lot of money...

After that you need a good bit of experience with original examples of whatever you are trying to clone...

I mean if you build a clone of a JTM-45 but you have ever played a JTM-45 how do you know if you got it "right"?!

This is one of the biggest issues wiht most amp cloners today...Greg Germino for example owns and has owned a truck load of vintage Marshall amps, sources all the right parts and has spent time learning about all the small changes in the various circiuts over the years...in the end it allows Greg to build an amp that sounds as good or better than 99% of the vintage Marshall amps that are on the market today...on the other hand there are truck loads of Marshall cloners out there that are builting JTM-45's or Superleads or whatever that have never played an original muchless several originals so all they are really doing is connecting the dots on a circiut board...this is not amp building and the same rule goes for pedal clones, guitar clones...whatever...

[Chickenwings]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

i reckon guitarists as musicicans need to spend less time worrying about sounding "right" or "authentic" or whatever....and just worry about sounding good.
Leave all that "period correct" stuff to historians and collectors.

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

i reckon guitarists as musicicans need to spend less time worrying about sounding "right" or "authentic" or whatever....and just worry about sounding good.
Leave all that "period correct" stuff to historians and collectors.

I sort of agree and I sort of disagree...

I'm far more intereted in the sound that comes out of a box than the parts that went into it however...

I am into older sounds and most new gear simpley doesn't sound old so when possible I uise old gear (brown Deluxe, Ampeg Jet, Twin Reverb, Echoplex, Crybaby wah wah, ES-335, etc) but when I can'f find (or moire often than not afford) the old gear I use either reissues (Moderne, 58 Les Paul, 57 Strat) or clones of old gear (Broadcaster, Fuzz Faces, Univibe, Octavia, 1950 tweed Super, etc)...

If I have ot use new clones of old gear I want it to sound as close as possible t othe real deal and that means more often than not being serious about using the "correct" parts...

I mean it'sa like this, I'll use Fuzz Face pedals as an example...I have 5 Fuzz Faces right now and all 5 sound amazing but out of the 5 only one really has the old school tone of a 1966 DA Fuzz Face...and it's the one with the "right" trannys...the other 4 are really great but if you want to nail the 1966 tone you need the right parts...

[SOLO GUITAR STEWIE]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

i reckon guitarists as musicicans need to spend less time worrying about sounding "right" or "authentic" or whatever....and just worry about sounding good.
Leave all that "period correct" stuff to historians and collectors.

Nice!

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

... and now I want a Germino Club 40. Thanks!

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

... and now I want a Germino Club 40. Thanks!

I think thats the amp I will get when I get ready to go back to "big amps"...the Club 40 is really great...that or the Classic 45, hell...all Greg's amps are killer!

[Dirtbagg]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

I like the thought of clone pedals for you can get the sound you want at a lower price by doing it yourself.

[WoodGrain67]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

I like the thought of clone pedals for you can get the sound you want at a lower price by doing it yourself.

+1

It's fun, try it.

Some places to check out:
BuildYourOwnClone, General Guitar Gadgets, GuitarPCB kits from Mammoth Electronics, Vero plans at Sabrotone, Small Bear Electronics.

[ratherdashing]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

It really depends on the pedal, and whether or not you want a "like new" clone, or a "decades of use" clone.

For example, it's easy to build a good TS-808 clone using modern components.

Conversely, a Fuzz Face built with modern components is going to sound NOTHING like an original. Same with a Boss CE-2 or MXR M117 Flanger, for example: those analog BBD chips simply don't exist any more.

Generally, the older and more "primitive" the circuit, the less likely you'll be able to build an accurate clone, unless you can source old components. Some components, like germanium transistors and BBD chips, both key components in the circuits they belong in, have been obsolete for decades.

There's also the issue that component tolerances were very loose back then, which means one pair of germanium transistors can produce a very different result than another pair, or that a capacitor labelled 0.22 is actually closer to 0.28.

Board layout is also a factor in a lot of cases, and this is often what separates a budget clone from a good one.

Lastly, certain components, especially older ones, have a tendency to degrade with use, which means even if you find the exact NOS components they won't be exactly the same as what you'd find inside a real vintage piece that's been played for hundreds or thousands of hours.

[wahwah]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

Some components, like germanium transistors and BBD chips, both key components in the circuits they belong in, have been obsolete for decades.

Certainly the case for germanium transistors, but not so for the BBD chip. There are current production BBD chips, based on some of the original Panasonic designs, being made and used in various pedals, including the Seymour Duncan Deja Vu delay, the Retro-Sonic Analog Delay and Chorus, Maxon AD-999, Visual Sound, etc.





Cheers......................................... wahwah

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

On the topic of clones.

Anyone ever tried the Klon Klone ?

Does it get close ?
Or is it just hype ?

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

Are you referring to Juansolo's Klone? If so, the answer is: the new version is pretty much identical to the Klon.

[ratherdashing]

Re: Clone Pedal Lowdown?

Certainly the case for germanium transistors, but not so for the BBD chip. There are current production BBD chips, based on some of the original Panasonic designs, being made and used in various pedals, including the Seymour Duncan Deja Vu delay, the Retro-Sonic Analog Delay and Chorus, Maxon AD-999, Visual Sound, etc.





Cheers......................................... wahwah

Yes, you are right, but IMO the current production BBD's don't have that same ... I don't know the best word to describe this ... maybe warmth? Bloom?

Plus the whole concept of a BBD is indeed obsolete now that digital equivalents are so cheap.