PA/Amp size

[9unslin9er]

Hey guys, I've been out of the live loop for a while, so I'd like a little input for bar/pub gigs.

When I was playing guitar only, I used to just schlep a 50watt Valvetronix, but I'm doubling up on vocal duties now too so I need to invest in a powered PA.

Main idea here is to get the most punch for the least weight. I don't have roadies and have a day job so I don't want to break my back lugging tons of stuff around.

I've decided to stick with my Vox and go with the Behringer Eurolive series as they're super affordable and can double as monitors.

Question is, do I go:

Behringer B210D (200watt)/Valvetronix 40+

or

Behringer B212D (550watt)/Valvetronix 80+

I need enough power for a medium crowd, without overpowering the other members who may just be running standard guitar/bass amps.

Anyone here double up on duties? I mean it's a difference of about $200, but the weight and power difference is significant.

[Empty Pockets]

Re: PA/Amp size

I would rather have more power than i need.

[Gearjoneser]

Re: PA/Amp size

One thing inherent in solid state amps is more idle hum at high volumes, so getting a modeler that's higher wattage will have a lower noise floor because they can be run at lower volumes. Unlike tube amps, they still have the same or similar tone at lower volumes, where the only variable is how much the speakers break up.

And don't go cheap on cabs and speakers, because they're half your tone. You can fool a person much easier using a modeler with a high quality cab made for tube amps.
By getting a good speaker cab, half the battle is won.

For a long time, my practice rig was a Valvetronix AD60VTH blue grill head on a Bogner large 212 Vin 30 cab. That rig sounded great till my damm Vox head quit working.
I still need to get that fixed. I miss that amp. It's the best sounding modeler I've owned. But it sounded way better on my Bogner cab than it did on the Vox cab made for it.

[jeremy]

Re: PA/Amp size

i sing more than i care too. for any ss application get as much power as you can. even if you dont need it, youll have cleaner sound and the amp will run cooler and happier.

joes point about speakers with a modeler (or any amp for that matter) and right on the money. the best amp in the world wont sound that great thru a lame speaker and a great speaker can help a mediocre amp sound better.

[9unslin9er]

Re: PA/Amp size

I use a Valvetronix 20+ for my home practice amp and have never had any issues with hum or noise on account of the built-in noise gate.

I have no intention or carrying around a big head or rackmount unit. I'd much rather mic a small combo.

My main concern here is whether or not 200 watts for the Behringer is enough to cover a bar gig, as I'm pretty sure all larger venues have their own PA systems. The Vox is my favorite amplifier for any application and it's less of a concern to me about the power more than the size to carry around. The 60watts on the VT40+ is more than I know what to do with. but I don't think 50-60 watts will have headroom over a 500watt PA.

[9unslin9er]

Re: PA/Amp size

I would rather have more power than i need.

There is much validity in this. I will see to how big the items are.

[jeremy]

Re: PA/Amp size

200w is not alot of pa. i use 500w for the mains in 100 person clubs. you dont want the amp to be running at or near its limit. especially with behringer. thats when they sound bad and break.

[uOpt]

Re: PA/Amp size

I'd avoid Behringer. Guitarist are sometimes mislead into thinking that Behringer can make working products become some guitar accessories are nice. But they are made differently, with different parts and in different Chinese factories from their "professional" sound stuff. The mixers in particular are really horrible when it comes to the longevity of the switches in there.

Underpowered PA power amps also kill cabinets. On stage you can't really control the thing and you can be sure that whoever adjusts the volume will overdrive the PA if it doesn't have enough power. This will quickly degrade the speakers, starting with killing the tweeters (due to the change in frequency distribution).

[9unslin9er]

Re: PA/Amp size

I'd avoid Behringer. Guitarist are sometimes mislead into thinking that Behringer can make working products become some guitar accessories are nice. But they are made differently, with different parts and in different Chinese factories from their "professional" sound stuff. The mixers in particular are really horrible when it comes to the longevity of the switches in there.

Sir I will avoid Behringer like the plague if you can recommend me a similar powered PA in the same price range.

Sweetwater currently lists the B212D for $229.99

I am on a budget and not looking to spend more than $600 for my live rig.

This includes a new Valvetronix, mic, and cables.

[jeremy]

Re: PA/Amp size

then unfortunately you get what you get. there is a reason behringer is cheap.

i know people that use them and they accept a certain chance when buying them, you are doing the same thing. if you get the bigger one you have a much better chance of it holding together for a while since you wont be running it at its limit all the time like you would the 200w version

[9unslin9er]

Re: PA/Amp size

^^ Roger that. 12"/550 it is.