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Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

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  • Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

    Ok so I have my mesa boogie studio preamp into 2:90 power amp which I love. I also have it connected to a TC electronics 2240 analogue parametric EQ (2 channel version of the 1140) and a G major FX rack. I can hear some tone suck out of the G major due to the AD/DA conversion but I just cant think of any way to get that untampered original tone of just the preamp into amp and still use effects at the same time. I understand that effects by nature will affect your tone and shape/change it slightly, and I've heard about the concept of a line mixer, and this would help unsuck my tone IF I only used parallel suitable FX like delay and reverb. Unfortunately, I like to use compression and chorus, as well as the occasional flanger/phaser which would all SUCK in a parallel mixer.

    I was thinking that by the time I have set up a mixer to allow reverb/delay from the G major, followed by separate true bypass chorus, compressor, noise gate, flanger and phaser pedals along with the extra assciated patch/cables needed, I would have ended up sucking tone out.

    I read about other people using mixers to preserve tone... Great for reverb and delay but what about other effects like compression, noise gate and chorus that NEED to recieve the dry signal and process it??! ...
    I just dont realistically understand how the tone suck thing is avoidable... If I keep the G major connected serially it sucks some tone and life, whereas If I were to get a mixer and just use the delays and reverb in parallel, I would still surely get tone suck because I would have to introduce another 4/5 pedals and more Cables/leads, Which would inadvertantly lead to tone suck as well.... By correcting the G major tone suck I have lengthened and complicated my signal chain, spent hundreds of ££££'s and have tone sucking properties of several pedals/more cables.

    Im starting to lose some faith. Maybe I should just stick with the G major... I guess its not that bad. I would end up spending another £1000 just to improve maybe 5%, if any at all !! Not sure its worth it. Any tips or ideas ?? Not sure what I should do ... Seems like I will never be fully satisfied If I go to all this effort to get my raw Mesa boogie tone.
    -RG Air Norton/Megadrive
    -Hard Ash Strat Amdusias set
    -JPM100 x2 PAF pro/Super D + Breed/Transition
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  • #2
    Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

    How about your compression>preamp>power amp>mic'd cad or isolation cab>GMajor? The mixing allows you to just pipe as much dry tone as you need to pep up the heavily modified tone. It doesn't stop "tone suck" as much as allows you to pretend it's not as dominant as it is. Letting the amp and preamp breath out a little and give as much as it has to a speaker, then modifying the sound from the microphone would work while getting a real effect depth as well.
    Originally posted by Funkfingers
    Music is for life. Without parole.

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    • #3
      Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

      It sounds like a complex setup. I would just have a wet/dry setup. Compress the dry, but send the wet to its own amp. Or, strip the setup down to guitar & amp and find out what is going on with the tone when you add things.
      Administrator of the SDUGF

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      • #4
        Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

        Practice playing unplugged. You will find amazing tone in your hands if you take the time to develop it.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        "So you will never have to listen to Surf music again" James Marshall Hendrix
        "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace."-Jimi Hendrix

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        • #5
          Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

          I think maybe you're thinking too much. Chasing your tail perhaps?


          www.CelticAmplifiers.com

          "You can't save everybody, everybody don't wanna be saved."

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          • #6
            Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

            Well, I think I will try the WET/DRY thing out... I have 2 tube preamps and the mesa 2:90 has 2 channels so i can run wet/dry at no major cost.... There is a definite difference in responsiveness and sparkle /volume when the FX rack is connected. I AB/D it with a bypass footswitch. Its a small difference but why does it bug me so much ?!?!?
            -RG Air Norton/Megadrive
            -Hard Ash Strat Amdusias set
            -JPM100 x2 PAF pro/Super D + Breed/Transition
            -Vigier Shawn Lane Aph1-n/Norton
            -Suhr SSS Strat V60/V60/ML Bridge (SSCII)
            -RG7 BKP Brutes

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            • #7
              Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

              Originally posted by evh_slash View Post
              ... I can hear some tone suck out of the G major due to the AD/DA conversion ....
              Are you sure it is the AD/DA conversion? I do not know the spec of either your preamps or the G major, but how are the input and output buffers on these guys? It is not without reason even TC themselves have had a line of input-buffer modified g-systems and nova-pedals. If you could get someone to check those out for you, maybe that's the problem, on the other had you may be right and it is the AD/DA, but some good buffering never harmed and high-end clarity!
              Unbelief is safe, because it takes no risk and almost always gets what it expects.

              When your passion begins to decline, you already start to die. You were born to burn.

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              • #8
                Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

                Originally posted by evh_slash View Post
                Its a small difference but why does it bug me so much ?!?!?
                Because you are OCD.
                Originally Posted by IanBallard
                Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

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                • #9
                  Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

                  Originally posted by evh_slash View Post
                  Ok so I have my mesa boogie studio preamp into 2:90 power amp which I love. I also have it connected to a TC electronics 2240 analogue parametric EQ (2 channel version of the 1140) and a G major FX rack. I can hear some tone suck out of the G major due to the AD/DA conversion but I just cant think of any way to get that untampered original tone of just the preamp into amp and still use effects at the same time.
                  What's the chain, exactly? Is the FX in the effects loop of the studio?

                  Can you confirm that the FX makes the sound worse even when all effects are turned off?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

                    Seems like you could be replacing one "problem" with another. Adding more complexity to your rig will only make the imperfections seem greater. Once you start messing with parallel fx, AD/DA, wet/dry rigs, mixers .etc a compromise will have to be made somewhere in the signal. You want the transparency of a PA system but the raw tone of a tube amp. Not impossible, but of short being able to employ your own personal road crew and guitar tech it could be very well diminishing returns.

                    Either that or you might just not have your G-major setup for optimal transparency.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

                      Try giving the tech support guys at Mesa a call, they might be able to help integrate your system.

                      Bill
                      When you've had budget guitars for a number of years, you may find that your old instrument is holding you back. A quality guitar can inspire you to write great songs, improve your understanding of the Gdim chord while in the Lydian Mode, cure the heartbreak of cystic acne--and help you find true love in the process.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

                        once you start playing in a band, all those little details about your tone disappear. Then your next goal will be to play better

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                        • #13
                          Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

                          Maybe breaking all down to basic elements and putting much more emphasis on playing would cure that feeling.

                          Been there, building battle mechs. Then I realised that the thing I miss is better music. I mean music that makes me more happy. Now I'm happier with playing a bare geetar unplugged than using a 6-channel tube rig with multiple preamps and multiple cabs back in time. Of course reel' fun comes when there is juice in the circuit but my present rig is still a barebone geetar + cable + preamp + delay + power amp set.
                          Wackor
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                          • #14
                            Re: Chasing tonal perfection or a lost cause ??

                            Originally posted by crguti View Post
                            once you start playing in a band, all those little details about your tone disappear. Then your next goal will be to play better
                            This....unless you already play in a band. I always thought I had a cool sound till I joined bands and started playing live. Then it became about sitting right in the mix and coming up with cool parts. Play more and think less about "tone" it will come to you naturally over time
                            Guitar- Fender Starcaster/Ibanez Artist in CGCGCC tuning
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