HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

[Jack_TriPpEr]

I've asked this question in other threads but not gotten a response. I've got some potential deals in the works to acquire either a used head version of an amp, or a used combo version of amp. I've found various open-back combos lacking tone-wise unless I plug them into a external closed back cab.

I really like idea of a combo version IF I can identify an aftermarket speaker I can place in the combo that approximates the sound of a Celestion Vintage 30 (or option B, a Celestion G12T-75) *in a closed back.* Need to know soon if there is a speaker that fits the bill, otherwise, I'm going to have to give up on the combo and pursue the head.

Even a response of "no such animal" would be helpful in putting this to bed.

Thanks!

[Rockstar216]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

I don't think their is a speaker out their that will make a open back sound like a closed back. Just the way actual sound disperses is from how the cab is designed. Maybe you could mod it to be a closed back but even then thats still not guarantee you will like the sound.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

I don't think their is a speaker out their that will make a open back sound like a closed back. Just the way actual sound disperses is from how the cab is designed. Maybe you could mod it to be a closed back but even then thats still not guarantee you will like the sound.

Thank you

[MetalManiac]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

Whats wrong with a V30 in an open backed cabinet? it';ll still sound like a V30.:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/orange-amplifiers-ppc-series-ppc212ob-120w-2x12-open-back-guitar-speaker-cab

Open backed cabinets in general sound different than closed backs.there is no "tone loss", just a difference.I lifted this from some thread on TDPRI< and the guy who wrote it is correct;

"Assuming two identical speakers in two identical cabinets, one open back and one closed back, the open back cabinet will have a chimier, more open and complex sound, will spread the sound around the room a lot more, will have looser bass response (but lots of speakers are designed for this, so that doesn't mean you won't have any bass if you have the right speakers). The closed back cabinet will be tighter, punchier, "simpler" and less complex sounding, less "airy" sounding, and much more directional (less sound at the back and sides). If you want to sound like Angus Young, or the Ramones, for instance, that's a closed back cabinet sound. If you want to sound like Tom Petty, that's an open back cabinet sound for the most part.

To complicate this more, some speakers don't sound right in open back cabs, like the Celestion G12M Greenback, which has too small a magnet structure, the bass gets flubby and the breakup gets trashy (not in a good way) in open back cabs, but in a closed back 2x12 or 4x12 these speakers sound great. Conversely, some speakers don't sound great in closed back cabs. The Celestion Alnico Blue sounds much better in an open back cab - it has plenty of bass response either way, but it has more complexity and opennes and chime in the open back cab, it sounds "simpler" and "constricted" in a closed back cab."

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

Open backed cabinets in general sound different than closed backs.

^ you answered your own question, you know that don't you?

[MetalManiac]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

well, if you are looking for some speaker that sounds like a V30 in closed back cabinet but only in an open back cabinet, thats a tall order right there. Good luck with that.
You'd have more luck going for a speaker that resembles a closed back sound in an open backed cabinet. Probably something like a EV12l I would imagine, but it isn't going to sound like a V30.
That said, if you want a V30 sound in a open backed cabinet that sounds most like a v30 in a closed cabinet, just put the V30's in the open backed cabinet.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

there is no "tone loss", just a difference

It's a big difference to my ears, however..
And actually that "difference" is that the lack of a closed back provides nothing for the lower frequencies to reverb against and generate outwards from - so it is a true tone loss as far as the speaker is concerned.

[MetalManiac]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

Yeah, and my ears tell me it's BIG, SUCK BALLS difference, thank you very much.

okay.
maybe a V30 Clone that doesn't break up quite as much with a higher power handling, stiffer cone I guess.IDK.
BTW, your ears are bucking the trend of some really really expensive open backed cabinets with V30's

[Rockstar216]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

Just go ahead and get a closed back extension cab with a v30.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

Just go ahead and get a closed back extension cab with a v30.

Yep, thanks Rockstar216

[MetalManiac]

Re: HOT question: speaker choices that offset open-back combo tone loss

so it is a true tone loss as far as the speaker is concerned.

No it isn't. Its a "sound" loss maybe. If you play really heavy stuff, and you probably do, then you might coinsider it as a "loss", but the best tone amps in the world are open backed combos.
So, your going to get a combo with an extension closed back speaker then? Does it have a speaker out jack?Will it fit on top, or will you use it side-by-side?