guitarSQUIRELL
New member
My VOX AC15 had stock 12AX7 in it. I ordered a replacement set and was sent 4 - ECC83S. Is there any difference between the two? The new ones are a tab bit shorter than the 12AX7's. The new ECC83S's are JJs by the way.
Tube differences?
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Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Tube differences?
Ecc83 is a European designation 12ax7 is an American one. For all intents amd purposes it's the same. Now you will find differences from brand to brand but they will all work in the same designated capacity. Think of it like AA batteries Duracell are bit different from Everready but they both work anywhere you need a AA battery.
Ecc83 is a European designation 12ax7 is an American one. For all intents amd purposes it's the same. Now you will find differences from brand to brand but they will all work in the same designated capacity. Think of it like AA batteries Duracell are bit different from Everready but they both work anywhere you need a AA battery.
guitarSQUIRELL
New member
Re: Tube differences?
Thanks to both of you....That helps....I was wondering.
Thanks to both of you....That helps....I was wondering.
Re: Tube differences?
True that are know to be consistently highest gain new production tubes. What's "interesting" is that I've seen the Gold versions advertised as lower noise, higher gain. But Myles tested a bunch of 12AX7's and the Gold samples averaged out at lower gain than the regular versions by a good amount. Lower noise too which is probably accounted for by the lower gain. I've wondered if the Golds were just selected versions of the regular JJECC83s that didn't meet the spec for gain. But they may very well be intentionally made as a lower gain tube.
I thought the S stood for short plate but that was always just an assumption.
True that are know to be consistently highest gain new production tubes. What's "interesting" is that I've seen the Gold versions advertised as lower noise, higher gain. But Myles tested a bunch of 12AX7's and the Gold samples averaged out at lower gain than the regular versions by a good amount. Lower noise too which is probably accounted for by the lower gain. I've wondered if the Golds were just selected versions of the regular JJECC83s that didn't meet the spec for gain. But they may very well be intentionally made as a lower gain tube.
I thought the S stood for short plate but that was always just an assumption.
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Tube differences?
Might be true... I know this the S designation was added after JJ discontinued their first ECC83 tubes they made. I always thought it was just to differentiate between the 2 models. Might be that that they chose "S" to designate "short"
New production 12ax7's are notoriously low on gain. Most float somewhere between 40 and 70% of what they should have. New ones also tend to me more inconsistent though I will say they are getting better than they were. New 12ax7s in the mid to late 90's were garbage. We've come a long ways from having the choice of either NOS, Sovtek WA's/WB's or random chinese whatever they were making that week.
In my mind its not a bad idea to buy 4 or 5 different 12ax7's on the market right now and just roll them through your amp. It can be eye opening how different they can be sometimes. It might be my ears or my rig but i dont dig the JJ's at all. To me they sound dark and kinda stuffy. But I know lots of guys love them.
Might be true... I know this the S designation was added after JJ discontinued their first ECC83 tubes they made. I always thought it was just to differentiate between the 2 models. Might be that that they chose "S" to designate "short"
New production 12ax7's are notoriously low on gain. Most float somewhere between 40 and 70% of what they should have. New ones also tend to me more inconsistent though I will say they are getting better than they were. New 12ax7s in the mid to late 90's were garbage. We've come a long ways from having the choice of either NOS, Sovtek WA's/WB's or random chinese whatever they were making that week.
In my mind its not a bad idea to buy 4 or 5 different 12ax7's on the market right now and just roll them through your amp. It can be eye opening how different they can be sometimes. It might be my ears or my rig but i dont dig the JJ's at all. To me they sound dark and kinda stuffy. But I know lots of guys love them.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Tube differences?
I don't care for JJ ECC83s in guitar amps for the same reason. longcat's SVT-3 Pro OTOH is loaded with JJ ECC83s & ECC82 and they sound great in there.
I don't care for JJ ECC83s in guitar amps for the same reason. longcat's SVT-3 Pro OTOH is loaded with JJ ECC83s & ECC82 and they sound great in there.
Re: Tube differences?
Buy from a good dealer that tests. It's worth a couple bucks more. A few brands/types are consistently low.
This is the best (albeit simple) data I have seen in a while and it's fairly new. Updated a couple years ago. (Scroll down the page a little ways) :
http://la-economy.blogspot.com/2013/05/current-production-12ax7-tubes-ten-of.html
Buy from a good dealer that tests. It's worth a couple bucks more. A few brands/types are consistently low.
This is the best (albeit simple) data I have seen in a while and it's fairly new. Updated a couple years ago. (Scroll down the page a little ways) :
http://la-economy.blogspot.com/2013/05/current-production-12ax7-tubes-ten-of.html
Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
Re: Tube differences?
Was just over at the JJ's and saw this: http://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=42
Was just over at the JJ's and saw this: http://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=42
chadd
Well-known member
Re: Tube differences?
I only liked them in my TSL, which I thought was a very bright amp. I like Tung Sol, especially in V1 of my Mesa. I haven't gotten around to swapping them around on my HRD yet.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Tube differences?
803s sound good. One of the few that sound like my Mullard 10M.
Long plate is supposedly more prone to microphonics, though the 12AXs I have that were microphonic were shorter plates. Go figure.
803s sound good. One of the few that sound like my Mullard 10M.
Long plate is supposedly more prone to microphonics, though the 12AXs I have that were microphonic were shorter plates. Go figure.
Re: Tube differences?
The JJ 803s have been out for a little while. http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/JJ-ECC803S-12AX7
Gain is a bit lower. There are some test results for them as well in the link I provided in post #9.
JJ also has an ECC83 MG (mid gain). Maybe just 83S's culled out due to lower gain. I don't know.
The JJ 803s have been out for a little while. http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/JJ-ECC803S-12AX7
Gain is a bit lower. There are some test results for them as well in the link I provided in post #9.
JJ also has an ECC83 MG (mid gain). Maybe just 83S's culled out due to lower gain. I don't know.
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: Tube differences?
The ECC803 is designed mimic the classic Telefunken 803; I prefer it over the ECC83 or 83S in the v1/2 slot(s), personally, but I usually use a boost in front my amp anyway. The 803 has a really smooth midrange without the fizz I hear with the 83/83S.
For the tone stack, the 83S works nice for me as it drives the tone stack really well. Reverb driver for me is a coin toss, it really depends on the amp circuit I am using.
The ECC803 is designed mimic the classic Telefunken 803; I prefer it over the ECC83 or 83S in the v1/2 slot(s), personally, but I usually use a boost in front my amp anyway. The 803 has a really smooth midrange without the fizz I hear with the 83/83S.
For the tone stack, the 83S works nice for me as it drives the tone stack really well. Reverb driver for me is a coin toss, it really depends on the amp circuit I am using.
