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  • #1

    Speaker conundrum

    I'm having a hard time searching for a good speaker for my setup.

    I've played quite a while with pair of 1x8 cabs with eminence speakers. It honestly sounds great. Only the bass response was (not surprisingly) a bit lacking.

    I bought 1x12 in summer with eminence legend v128. Tone I got from that cab alone was very bad. Tight bass response, and nice sparkly highs, but the overall tone was about most flat and dull I've heard. There was no mids to speak of. I got usable tone when I made my eminence delta 1x8 half open and added in series with that cab. Dirty solution but it worked.

    I tried to improve that cab by swithing to g12m greenback 25w. It's really nothing I imagined it to be:
    Very fuzzy mids and highs, combined with loose and undefined bass... Not good.

    So I ended up adding those two 1x8 cabs parallel to make it usable. Now I think that those 1x8 might sound better on their own.

    Not sure if I should just gut the 1x12 and put those 8" speakers in it. That bigger cab might add that needed bass response.

    Or should I try yet to find actually good sounding 12" for it.
    "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
    Iron Maiden - Wasted Years
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Speaker conundrum

    Will you be able to fit a 2x8" into a 1x12"? Be absolutely sure that it is doable before proceeding. Even then, I suspect that you would have to make some serious adjustments to it to make it work.

    I do have some experience with the Greenbacks (I have been using them for a decade), and I would like to say two things in their favour: (1) they sound a lot less constricted once they are properly worn in, and (2) their strong sides work to their advantage in a full mix. There is nothing wrong with not liking them, of course.

    You have not told what kind of music you play, or what your rig is. Could it be that there are things elsewhere in the sound chain that contributes to a sub-par sound?

    Failing that, I think it would help if you could re-phrase your earlier comments into a description of what you'd like a speaker to do that the Greenback didn't do for you. Those are one of the industry standards, and I am sure people here could chime in. If you, somehow, could manage to try your rig with a Vintage 30 that would be even better.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Speaker conundrum

      They fit just nicely. It's slightly oversized diy cab, I have no worries about tinkering with it. Just needs new baffle for make it to work.

      Based on the seller, it should be broken in. It doesn't really sound "constricted" but loose, bright and harsh. Like it was in open cab (it's not).

      I'd really like to focus on speakers to fit my current rig instead of other way around. I think that's the weakest link in it currently. Head I use is Orange Tiny Terror.

      I have idea of the tone I'm after in my head, but I can't really pinpoint it to specific style.

      I think the combination of that eminence legend v12 and greenback might be just perfect, but other is 8 ohms and 16 so I cannot try them out. And I guess sensitivity is too much off for them to blend nicely (102 vs 96 db).

      In a nutshell, I'm after wide frequency response, with mid to low mid heaviness and possibly slightly less upper mids for that sort "wooden grunt". But preferably not too restrained high end, so I can get chime and wail too.
      "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
      Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Speaker conundrum

        Originally posted by Jacew View Post
        I'm having a hard time searching for a good speaker for my setup.

        I've played quite a while with pair of 1x8 cabs with eminence speakers. It honestly sounds great. Only the bass response was (not surprisingly) a bit lacking.

        I bought 1x12 in summer with eminence legend v128. Tone I got from that cab alone was very bad. Tight bass response, and nice sparkly highs, but the overall tone was about most flat and dull I've heard. There was no mids to speak of. I got usable tone when I made my eminence delta 1x8 half open and added in series with that cab. Dirty solution but it worked.

        I tried to improve that cab by swithing to g12m greenback 25w. It's really nothing I imagined it to be:
        Very fuzzy mids and highs, combined with loose and undefined bass... Not good.

        So I ended up adding those two 1x8 cabs parallel to make it usable. Now I think that those 1x8 might sound better on their own.

        Not sure if I should just gut the 1x12 and put those 8" speakers in it. That bigger cab might add that needed bass response.

        Or should I try yet to find actually good sounding 12" for it.
        You're all over the place man. I'd never consider anything smaller than a 2x12 cab. I'd also never consider anything other than Celestions and closed back cabs.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Speaker conundrum

          Originally posted by esandes View Post
          You're all over the place man. I'd never consider anything smaller than a 2x12 cab. I'd also never consider anything other than Celestions and closed back cabs.
          Well, I'm not that conservative. I like to try different things.

          And honestly I've had better luck thus far with eminences than celestion speakers...

          It bites there's no shops around where I could try out cabs.
          "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
          Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Speaker conundrum

            Not sure exactly what you're looking for but sounds like you may find it with mix of 2 speakers. Maybe in a 2X12. But with your affinity for those 8" speakers, maybe not.
            Nothing wrong with Eminence speakers. Some of their line are meant to be based on some of the more "legendary" speakers by other companies, mainly celestion I guess. And some are their own thing. I use a Celestion G12H30 with an Eminence Red Fang Alnico in a partially open back 2x12. I use WGS Invaders in a 4x12 with a Marshall (clone build). They have some of that Greenback midrange going but they are more extended and balanced and don't break up quite as early. I love those speakers. Point being, it's a search and we all have our own preferences.

            Unfortunately, you may just have to go through a period of Speaker Acquisition Syndrome ... buy, try and sell. Don't know how the used market is in Finland with ebay or other online sites but that may be your best bet.
            Last edited by Darg1911; 12-17-2017, 08:07 AM.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Speaker conundrum

              You might have to get shell out for a plane ticket to Burgebrach in the end.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Speaker conundrum

                I've been actually looking at g12h's. They seem exactly what I'm looking for. Does they have significantly less "honkiness" and/or more tightness than Greenbacks?

                The Governor is other I've been looking at. Any experience about those?
                "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Speaker conundrum

                  Originally posted by Sirion View Post
                  You might have to get shell out for a plane ticket to Burgebrach in the end.


                  Where's that?
                  "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                  Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Speaker conundrum

                    Celestion Speaker Test
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLtHLLPsnw
                    A comparison of the Vintage 30, G12H(55),Classic V-Type and the G12M Greenback from Celestion. All speakers are 12" and demonstrated by Denis Cornell.


                    Marshall Plexi 1959 SLP - Celestion speakers (G12M25, G12H30, V30)
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWxBLojlsVE
                    Marshall Plexi Reissue with different celestion speakersClassic Greenbak, G12H and V30 speakers hooked to a roaring plexiEach speaker sounds different, givin...

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Speaker conundrum

                      Originally posted by Jacew View Post
                      The Governor is other I've been looking at. Any experience about those?
                      They sound ok in the room, but don't mic up all that well, IME. Weird mids and fizzy top. Honestly, I much prefer even Chinese V30's, both in the room and mic'd up, personally.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Speaker conundrum

                        Originally posted by Jacew View Post


                        Where's that?
                        That is the town Thomann is physically located in.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Speaker conundrum

                          Originally posted by Jacew View Post
                          Well, I'm not that conservative. I like to try different things.

                          And honestly I've had better luck thus far with eminences than celestion speakers...

                          It bites there's no shops around where I could try out cabs.
                          I know what you mean. The only other way to find the right cab is to YouTube different cabs and speaker combinations. I know celestion have sound clips for most of their speakers on their site.

                          What kind of music do you play? If you want big and tight bass you want a sealed back cab as big as possible. In General, higher wattage and bigger magnet speakers will further help to bring chest thumping bass.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Speaker conundrum

                            Originally posted by esandes View Post
                            I know what you mean. The only other way to find the right cab is to YouTube different cabs and speaker combinations. I know celestion have sound clips for most of their speakers on their site.

                            What kind of music do you play? If you want big and tight bass you want a sealed back cab as big as possible. In General, higher wattage and bigger magnet speakers will further help to bring chest thumping bass.
                            I dont want a lot of bass, but I'd like it tighter and more controlled than Greenback.

                            Dialing eq into very bass heavy seemed to help for that. It has now quite ok tone, though I'd still like to have less fuzzyness in mids and highs.

                            They sound ok in the room, but don't mic up all that well, IME. Weird mids and fizzy top. Honestly, I much prefer even Chinese V30's, both in the room and mic'd up, personally.
                            Clearly the wrong speaker for me then. Thanks.

                            What about Private Jack?
                            "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                            Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Speaker conundrum

                              Originally posted by Darg1911 View Post
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLtHLLPsnw

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWxBLojlsVE
                              Well, that was little use: Greenback was the best in first one and V30 worst...

                              In the second one I didn't like the mid/high response of any of the examples. Of course it could be the amp and how it's dialed, but still...

                              If I don't want that ripping/searing type of tone that you hear in these examples, what would you suggest?

                              Here's the best example I could find of the type of solid and bright, yet smooth tone what I'm after:
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz1y1_RG_90
                              "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                              Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                              Comment

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