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Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

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  • #1

    Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

    Hello everybody!

    I have an opportunity to buy some old Creambacks at a good price, but of course there's a catch. Two of them work but need a re-cone and the other two don't work at all. At this price + repair, I think I'd still be getting a good deal even if I only get two out of it. So here's my questions:

    1. The model seems a stranger combination than most. It's G12 M - 25w - 16Ohm - 55hz - with T 1511 stamped. Can anyone give me some more info on these?

    2. What's the approximate cost to have these re-coned? I could most likely do it myself but have never done it before so wouldn't be afraid to pay for experience either.

    I've been holding out trying to get my hands on some G12-65's for my JCM 800, and honestly don't know much about Creambacks, but seems like a decent deal so if it's not too much of a pain I may jump on it.

    Thoughts?

    EDIT: They are dated 1976
    Last edited by Kamanda~SD; 01-18-2018, 10:57 AM.
    TOUQUE ROCK...EH???? I AM CANADIAN
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

    I'm pretty sure that Weber charges $75 for a 12" re-cone. But a re-cone replaces more than just the cone. Also the voice coil and leads, spider, cone, surround etc. You gotta pay shipping back and forth too. There is a place fairly close to me that used to be good and inexpensive. Now they cost more than Weber and I've heard mixed reviews. There is also re-foaming which is just the surround and dust cap I think. It's cheaper but not by much any more. Re-foaming is often what people do themselves. But places do sell full recone kits for DIY. There has got to be cheaper places around but I don't know of any other off hand. And, you will always get hit with shipping back and forth. Bottom line is that it's not exactly cheap to send them out.

    You have a 55Hz cone on your G12M. Scroll down about 2/3 of the page ... http://www.bygonetones.com/celestion...er-models.html
    Last edited by Darg1911; 01-18-2018, 03:28 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

      Those are just G12M with 55hz cones. The color of the magnet cover means nothing.

      Scumback is who I would use for recones, but even if you were in the states, that might cost more than you like.

      There is no reason to buy those just to have to recone them over just buying some G12M Heritage speakers for less money.
      -Chris

      Originally posted by John Suhr
      “Practice cures most tone issues”

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

        By the time you replace the parts that don't work, you're not really left with much original vintage speaker, anyway.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

          I would love to know what the price is considering what those speakers bring working.
          -Chris

          Originally posted by John Suhr
          “Practice cures most tone issues”

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

            Thanks everyone. Decided to pass.

            Price was $100 CAD for all four.
            TOUQUE ROCK...EH???? I AM CANADIAN

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

              Originally posted by Ayrton View Post
              Those are just G12M with 55hz cones. The color of the magnet cover means nothing.
              While it's true that the color of the magnet cover is meaningless, I'd love to know how Blackback Celestions from the late 70s differ from their earlier Greenback counterparts to account for the differences in tone.
              Originally posted by crusty philtrum
              And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

                The cone used and voice coil used.

                Vintage Celestion Guitar Speaker Cones - Bygone Tones
                http://www.bygonetones.com/celestion-cones.html
                An overview of the various cones used on early Celestion guitar speakers: Pulsonic, Kurt Mueller, RIC, 98700.
                -Chris

                Originally posted by John Suhr
                “Practice cures most tone issues”

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

                  Click image for larger version Name: celestom G-12H.jpg Views: 2 Size: 43.0 KB ID: 5804956 $150 new at most of your favorite internet retailers... so, $600 new, $400 used & re-coned, + shipping.

                  "For old fashioned blues and rock, something about heavy tubes, heavy transformers, heavy speakers and heavy cabinets just works." PFDarkside

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                  • #10
                    Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

                    Originally posted by Ayrton View Post
                    The cone used and voice coil used.

                    http://www.bygonetones.com/celestion-cones.html


                    I know it's considered heresy in some circles, but I honestly like Blackback H30s better than their Greenback predecessors.
                    Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

                      Originally posted by dystrust View Post


                      I know it's considered heresy in some circles, but I honestly like Blackback H30s better than their Greenback predecessors.
                      Unfortunately I don't know enough to have an opinion on this. Could you school me on Blackbacks, Greenbacks, Creambacks and any-other-backs you know of.

                      Back in the 1970s I remember just wanting to buy the speakers that wouldn't blow up with a big amp pushing them, so I gained an appreciation for speakers that are not beloved anymore.
                      And my one and only 4x12 cabinet is an old Orange PPC 412 - it has some mega-power-handling stuff in it. It's old, big and Orange. I dunno what's in it. I haven't opened it up in years and if I knew I forgot, but I see the new ones come with, and I quote "(4) 100 Watt Celestion G12K100 Speakers. Originally built to accompany the Orange Thunderverb 200 guitar head (which can also be used as a bass head), the PPC412HP-8 is a STEREO cab that offers massive low-end response with an incredibly tight tone ... blah, blah, blah.

                      The AD-140 & whatever-it's-loaded with Orange PPC 412 works great as a bass amp. The only problem is that the head tends to "walk" off the top of the amp during long sets, so you have to keep an eye on it so it doesn't vibrate right off. I had trouble getting "the bass player" BACK to blowing up is 70,000 Watt Solid State Gallien-Kruger when he got it back from "repair guy #2".

                      OK, pretty sure mines not Stereo, and I think some of the old ones were rated at 240 Watts. The head is a AD 140, so some-color-backed 30 watt speaker is probably marginal, at best. I'm trying to remember if I've *EVER* turned the volume up to 10 and am almost 100% sure the answer is *NO*. And this includes playing in an outdoor amphitheater that was 1/4 mile deep for a biker "alliance" weekend, and we were the closing act. Yeah, I should have, just because other than dragging it out to the desert, it's the only place it might have been almost appropriate. Still. It just was not needed.

                      Now a-days I'm older and smarter and like 50 watt (or less) amps, so I'm more interested in these lower power rated speakers.

                      I did read (here, recently) that some famous metal guitarists likes "speakers that do not distort". SO uses something like what the new Oranges have. In the old days there was a saying that tube distortion was pleasant and good and speaker distortion was unpleasant and bad, but opinions seem to have changed on this.

                      So, like I said. Most people here know a lot more than me, please teach me about this!
                      Last edited by dr0; 01-22-2018, 11:22 PM.

                      "For old fashioned blues and rock, something about heavy tubes, heavy transformers, heavy speakers and heavy cabinets just works." PFDarkside

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

                        Originally posted by dr0 View Post
                        Unfortunately I don't know enough to have an opinion on this. Could you school me on Blackbacks, Greenbacks, Creambacks and any-other-backs you know of.
                        Aryton essentially answered that already, or at least the link he shared does.

                        Originally posted by Ayrton View Post
                        The cone used and voice coil used.

                        http://www.bygonetones.com/celestion-cones.html
                        I'm most familiar with Greenback G12Ms along with Blackback G12Ms and G12Hs. IMO the Greenback speakers are brighter and clearer; a Blackback G12M tends to sound like you're playing significantly dirtier than you are. These speakers were frequently stock in JMP master volume combos and are largely responsible for the very grind-y tone of those amps. A Blackback H30 is very aggressive sounding, like a better Vintage 30 IMO; they're probably my favorite Celestion speaker. I'm not overly thrilled with the G12H Anniversary, I suspect they're based on Greenback H30s but I don't know for sure.
                        Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                        And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

                          The magnet cover color matters not. Don’t let that confuse you.

                          You have medium and heavy (G12M & G12H) magnets, and the 75hz or 55hz coils. Those are the models of speaker.

                          The differences over the years are the cones used. Each have their own sound and one is not really “better” than another.

                          I can tell you plenty of people with well developed ears have preferred the regular MIC “greenbacks” (G12M) many times.

                          That link I posted has lots of good information if you want to go down the rabbit hole
                          -Chris

                          Originally posted by John Suhr
                          “Practice cures most tone issues”

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

                            Originally posted by dystrust View Post
                            Aryton essentially answered that already, or at least the link he shared does.



                            I'm most familiar with Greenback G12Ms along with Blackback G12Ms and G12Hs. IMO the Greenback speakers are brighter and clearer; a Blackback G12M tends to sound like you're playing significantly dirtier than you are. These speakers were frequently stock in JMP master volume combos and are largely responsible for the very grind-y tone of those amps. A Blackback H30 is very aggressive sounding, like a better Vintage 30 IMO; they're probably my favorite Celestion speaker. I'm not overly thrilled with the G12H Anniversary, I suspect they're based on Greenback H30s but I don't know for sure.
                            My current 4x12 has a pair of EVH Greenbacks on top and H30 Blackbacks on bottom. It's my favorite 4x12 that I've ever had.
                            "Always remember... all you do in life, comes back to you" - Roy Kahn, formerly of Kamelot, during the intro to "Karma" on their One Cold Winter's Night DVD

                            http://www.soundcloud.com/jwflamenco

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Vintage G12M Creamback Questions

                              Originally posted by Red_Label View Post
                              My current 4x12 has a pair of EVH Greenbacks on top and H30 Blackbacks on bottom. It's my favorite 4x12 that I've ever had.
                              A most excellent combo

                              The EVH speakers are just relabeled Heritage G12M for those that don’t know.
                              -Chris

                              Originally posted by John Suhr
                              “Practice cures most tone issues”

                              Comment

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