Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

[NegativeEase]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

Gee, I wonder if this could also be applied to the VHI tone in one way or another?

of course. people put way too much emphasis on minor gear tweaks. what you hear on a record (especially now) has been transduced, buffered, bounced, converted, mixed from a multi track to only a portion of the bandwidth on the master, dithered down, transcoded, compressed etc etc.

Those big bottles aren't going to make ANY difference to 99% of the people listening

[Aceman]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I have never been in a studio while anything was being recorded. But I know this:

They will use any guitar, any amp and effect, in all manner of strange locations configurations to get a sound
And then Sound engineers will do all sorts of things to it using all manner of outboard gear, EQ, compression and what not.
They have all forgot more about microphones and placement than we will ever know.
And of course, in classic rock fashion of the day, the obligatory pile of coke, booze, etc...

Yet you think someone knows this stuff from album to album, let alone track to track. Like a given track is even one amp...

Carry on with the insanity.

[Mincer]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

In my experience, most people don't spend that much time looking for a sound. Get something that doesn't sound bad, and start recording. A lot of great sounds were just stumbled on, or the result of the 'hunt and peck' method, and not reliant on brilliant engineers. Those are rare, and these days, more so.

[El Dunco]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

A little known fact about the recording of the first two VH albums is that David Lee Roth was unknowingly singing into an electric shaver. His vocal parts were overdubbed by Dave Bickler.

There is seriously a kazoo/slide whistle thing on DLR's vocal track on RWTD! Listen at 1:59

If you listen carefully, it's definitely on the studio version of the song to, what the hell?! Are there any other whacky instruments Dave snuck into classic Van Halen songs? Does Unchained have a moonshine jug solo buried down in the mix? Maybe some sousaphone snuck into Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love?

In my experience, most people don't spend that much time looking for a sound. Get something that doesn't sound bad, and start recording. A lot of great sounds were just stumbled on, or the result of the 'hunt and peck' method, and not reliant on brilliant engineers. Those are rare, and these days, more so.

Absolutely correct. My favourite unique guitar sounds I ended up with were happy accidents and so many iconic guitar tones are actually from the players trying to emulate their heroes, failing and ending up with an iconic sound of their own. A lot of 80s-90s signature guitar sounds share the Eddie lineage but turned out quite different.

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I don't know why people bother learning the ins and outs and gory details of gear, really...

...let alone what various, highly influential guitar gods used to get their schweet tones...


I mean, if you have little to none gear knowledge, you should still be able to get great tone through a SS Gorilla or Crate amp, or any amp.

Gear just really doesn't matter at all (except for all those sucky guitar players who constantly fiddle with their tone).

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If "tone is in your fingers" then cut off your fingers & try to plug them into an amp & see what they sound like.

Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork are all about tone.

Technique/skill/playing style/talent are all about the player.

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I was, of course, being facetious...

[GuitarStv]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If "tone is in your fingers" then cut off your fingers & try to plug them into an amp & see what they sound like.

Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork are all about tone.

Technique/skill/playing style/talent are all about the player.

If tone is in the Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork plug your guitar in, turn the amp on as high as it goes and and let it do your next gig.

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If tone is in the Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork plug your guitar in, turn the amp on as high as it goes and and let it do your next gig.

[Sirion]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I don't know why people bother learning the ins and outs and gory details of gear, really...

...let alone what various, highly influential guitar gods used to get their schweet tones...


I mean, if you have little to none gear knowledge, you should still be able to get great tone through a SS Gorilla or Crate amp, or any amp.

Gear just really doesn't matter at all (except for all those sucky guitar players who constantly fiddle with their tone).

There is learning, and there is going off the deep end. You are looking at a ton of different guys, and getting very close to capturing the nuances of their particular rigs, so it isn't about you. The VH1 tone in particular is as dead a horse as it gets in this respect. While people argue about this (and there will never be any agreement), so many of the guitarists that followed in his wake (many of whom are more interesting than Eddie in my opinion) remain largely unexplored. If people are inclined to study these things in detail, then surely the Leslie West/Vito Bratta Marshall must be of more interet now than yet another wall of text about VH1?

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

There is learning, and there is going off the deep end. You are looking at a ton of different guys, and getting very close to capturing the nuances of their particular rigs, so it isn't about you. The VH1 tone in particular is as dead a horse as it gets in this respect. While people argue about this (and there will never be any agreement), so many of the guitarists that followed in his wake (many of whom are more interesting than Eddie in my opinion) remain largely unexplored. If people are inclined to study these things in detail, then surely the Leslie West/Vito Bratta Marshall must be of more interet now than yet another wall of text about VH1?

It's all subjective as to, "what is allowed for discussion", really. Purely personal preference.

In actuality, one man's Ronni LeTekrø's tone quest is another man's EVH tone quest, is another man's Tom Petty tone quest... so on and so forth.

Which of the above tone quests is permissible? All of them of course, and no one has any good reason to slag someone's interest in tone-chasing (usually the ones who do, insert themselves into an area of knowledge of which they are sorely lacking).

Speaking of EVH's tone - it is the King-Daddy, the Loch Ness, the Bigfoot, the Bermuda Triangle of all tones to chase. Of all the guitar tones to chase, EVH's is by far the most discussed... period. It is the biggest mystery (well, for those who don't know studio production, what plexi's really sound like, and the circuit variations Marshall was doing in 1968). Gear manufacturer's recognize this as well. EVH's 1st album tone is a pinnacle that many try to achieve (yet fail miserably). It's all the byproduct of Ed being such a huge influence... yuuuuuuge influence. It just is, and will be until guitars and amps and rock and roll fade into the obscurity of history (we're already starting down this path).

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If tone is in the Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork plug your guitar in, turn the amp on as high as it goes and and let it do your next gig.

If tone is purely in the fingers, then every good pianist would have their very own unique piano tone.

Every good violinist would have their very own unique violin tone.

etc...

But they don't.

[GuitarStv]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If tone is purely in the fingers, then every good pianist would have their very own unique piano tone.

Every good violinist would have their very own unique violin tone.

etc...

But they don't.

You need to hang out with more piano players. Two different people can coax very different sounds out of the same instrument based on their touch and feel.



But I never said that 'tone' (whatever that is) is purely in the fingers. Of course the guitar, amp, pedals, etc. contribute to how things sound. I'd just argue that if you can play Van Halen's licks perfectly the choice of gear isn't super important. It sounds like me whether I'm borrowing an amp or playing my own. Or even when I'm banging away on an acoustic.

[Sirion]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

Speaking of EVH's tone - it is the King-Daddy, the Loch Ness, the Bigfoot, the Bermuda Triangle of all tones to chase. Of all the guitar tones to chase, EVH's is by far the most discussed... period.

Yes, and that is the heartrending thing about it. EVH unleashed a golden age of rock guitar, which is bigger than any single guitarist. Yet people keep dissecting the VH1 tone, whilst so many others languish in almost total obscurity. I have argued elsewhere that Eddie (and to a lesser extent Randy) are so big that they are actually obstacles when trying to understand their own scene, and this is nowhere more obvious than in tone discussions.

[Sirion]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

It seems to me that a lot of the controversy around the validity of tone searching as a concept comes from simple miscommunication. We are all guilty from time to time of hoping that a new gadget is going to make us sound like a particular guitarist (which very rarely happens). There is a smaller contingent who truly believes that "tone is in the fingers", and that this is an insight that shuts down any discussion of gear. Those people are fools.

The truth is surprisingly empowering: a lot of what we call tone is in the fingers, but this is really a combination of aspects (force, timing and pitch fluctuation probably being the three most important ones) that to a large extent can be emulated. This shouldn't be too hard for anybody to accept, and I suspect that a lot of disagreement would vanish if we did.