EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

[redsparkleLP]

Hello,
I have a problem that is the reverse of usual. I love my amp sound at lower rather than high volumes. It seems to lose its fluid metal sounds the louder I turn it up. It sounds best at a volume that is just above me no longer being able to hear the strings acoustically.

Part of me thinks it is related to playing at high volumes for any amp because I experienced this with my Krankenstein before my EVH.

I do recall playing a Fryette Pitbull some years ago ay high volume, however, and it still had the fluid metal sound at high volumes.

I am running the 50 watt head into a boogie 2 12 cab.

settings are: gain 12:30, low 3:30, mid 2:00high 3:30 4presence 3. On the high gain channel.

Thanks

[GuitarStv]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

At high volumes you get a couple things into play:
- power tubes will distort a bit (solution is a more powerful amp)
- speakers will distort a bit (try more and higher powered speakers)
- speakers often behave slightly differently at different volumes. Volume-wise the sweet spot for a greenback is not the same as the sweet spot for a v30. (Requires a lot of experimentation to figure out)
- your ears will actually compress the sound you hear . . . typically, this makes you hear bass as being louder. (Try lowering bass and low mids on your amp as the volume increases, this has the benefit of reducing the strain on power tubes and speakers too . . . bass takes more power to produce than mids and treble)

The volume you're talking about liking is incredibly quiet . . . making me think that the most likely issue is not the speaker or amp, but how you're hearing them. Try re-eqing your amp at higher volumes, and go easy on the lows.

[Mincer]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

It also sounds like you would be a good candidate for a modeling rig, which doesn't suffer from this at all. Same sound, no matter what the volume (providing you aren't distorting your speakers). But going with what you have, you may just need to have a different EQ and gain level for loud playing.

[redsparkleLP]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

actually I backed both off both and this has helped. Making me realize that EQ needs to be adjusted with volume changes. I had no idea this was the case. thanks to both of you.

[redsparkleLP]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

not ready for modeling yet. I get thrown off by everything. any latency will create a feel issue for me. But I am impressed with what I hear at times

[Jeff5]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

I always find that when I turn up I have to EQ again, and especially have to back down the treble and sometimes presence. At low volumes I think we just can't hear those as well, but when you turn up they become way more prominent.

[devastone]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

Not really any latency to notice with latest modelers.

But yes, EQ changes quite a bit as the power tubes start working.

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

I always find that when I turn up I have to EQ again, and especially have to back down the treble and sometimes presence. At low volumes I think we just can't hear those as well, but when you turn up they become way more prominent.

With the 50W EVH?

With my LBX 1, it seems as you turn it up, it gets kinda tighter and slightly more cutting (before it hits the point where it starts going farty and shrill).

WIth my old LBX II, it was the opposite. It was really fizzy at lower volumes, and it warms up as you turn it up. The difference here was bigger than with the LBX 1 too.

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

You always need to set EQ at the level you'll be playing at. This often confounds players who rehearse quieter than their stage level.
They get to a gig and suddenly it's, "What's wrong - my amp sounds totally different!"

We hear low and high frequencies differently at various different volumes. This is commonly known as the Fletcher-Munson effect, even though their early research has been superceded by modern findings.

It's the reason for the Loudness button on old stereos, which boosted the lows & highs to compensate for low-level listening.

With an amp, of course, there's more going on because of power amp sag & breakup and possible speaker anomalies especially in the low end, as others have pointed out.

Generally less bass and treble is required. On most amps the Treble knob affects the gain character more than the other controls do, so it's a good idea to try tweaking highs using the Presence knob first, because it works in the power stage rather than in the preamp section.

The universal rule is, you'll always get the best results by dialing in your EQ at stage levels.
Bedroom settings don't really work at volume for any rig, even a rack preamp/poweramp system.
I can't speak to modelers.
But the effect of volume on the perception of tone is built into the human ear & brain.

[Erlend_G]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

My Blackstar HT-20mkII is dark and "just bass" with EQ at noon- at low volumes-

But when the power tubes break up- it becomes a high-mid/treble beast- and then the EQ at noon is just right!

[Coma]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

Hello,
I have a problem that is the reverse of usual. I love my amp sound at lower rather than high volumes. It seems to lose its fluid metal sounds the louder I turn it up. It sounds best at a volume that is just above me no longer being able to hear the strings acoustically.

Part of me thinks it is related to playing at high volumes for any amp because I experienced this with my Krankenstein before my EVH.

I do recall playing a Fryette Pitbull some years ago ay high volume, however, and it still had the fluid metal sound at high volumes.

I am running the 50 watt head into a boogie 2 12 cab.

settings are: gain 12:30, low 3:30, mid 2:00high 3:30 4presence 3. On the high gain channel.

Thanks

Also nature of the beast, I think. I run the 100w version and it looses a lot of smoothness when you turn it up.

[jeremy]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

do you play live with a band? i find that as you turn up the texture you get (losing smoothness in your words) helps cut through a mix. the tones i like when playing by myself dont always translate to the stage well and vise versa

[Coma]

Re: EVH 5150 iii and sound difference at high volume

do you play live with a band? i find that as you turn up the texture you get (losing smoothness in your words) helps cut through a mix. the tones i like when playing by myself dont always translate to the stage well and vise versa

I do and you are correct. Same reason why bedroom/recording tone and live tone seldom overlap perfectly