Want Opinion on a Topic That’s Been Covered A Million Times

[Calsip]

Hey guys,

I have a question about some amps. For some backup information I recently got moved to lead guitar in my band after much pressure from them. We play like metalcore and easycore stuff; everyone’s favorite two genres within this community I know.

I currently use a DSL100 and love it. The reason for the amp change is because I am wanting something that is a bit tighter in sound and less mid-range.

The specific amps that I am deciding between is the 5150, 6505+, and 6534+.

Any help is appreciated!
Thanks!

[Ewizard]

Those are all the same amp more or less. The only difference between the 5150 and the other two is that the 6505 and 6534 have a cleaner clean channel than the 5150. Either of them will do Metalcore with gusto.

Not sure what you're doing with the DSL100, but it too should get you there. Tightness is usually attributed to having less bass. This is why the whole Tubescreamer in front of the amp thing is so popular among metal players. the Tubescreamer cuts a bit of the bass and adds one more tone-shaping character to the amp. Secondary to that is that you can turn down the gain on the amp and push the front end of the amp harder with the TS. This too adds a little bit more tightness to the sound as you have less overall distortion from any one section of the amp.

Most swear by the 5150 as being THE ONE. I owned a 6505+ and it is gone now, More because my XXX did just as well and my Jet City JCA50h was just as aggressive and gnarly. The 6505+ was worth more sold than it was for me in my arsenal.

If you really want tightness, don't forget about the Engl offerings. Engle amps are very nice and can do the brootz.

[AdrianSD]

Worth experimenting with a TS in front of the amp and an EQ pedal in the loop.

[ehdwuld]

I was gonna sggest a pedal as well

[Demanic]

Definitely try an eq in the loop first. And maybe hit the front end with a clean boost.

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[Calsip]

Thank you guys! I already have an EQ, how should I dial it in? What should I cut and what should I boost?


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[NegativeEase]

Definitely try an eq in the loop first. And maybe hit the front end with a clean boost.

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Yeah, I was thinking a DSL should be able to be augmented to get close -more gain into the pre, EQ in more 100, 200 Hz, Eq out some of the 800 and 1k, and maybe go with a deeper sounding 12Ax7 per amp tubes and a maybe even try stepping up the bias slightly to compress the mids down may help.

Or get wild and go distortion pedal straight into the effects loop bypassing the pre.

Also, speakers are probably the biggest component -what speakers are you pushing?

[El Dunco]

The DSL is the weapon of choice for Gary Holt, Nile and plenty of other super heavy bands I can think of. There's nothing wrong with wanting a new amp but I'd wait until you can save up to get an absolute monster, cutting edge beast of an amp like anything Edgecrusher recommends. He's played through some truly state-of-the-art amps build from the ground up for modern metal. I wouldn't bother with getting anything middle of the road. What you have will do you fine for what you need inexpensively. In the meantime, getting to grips with the tone controls on the DSL, a boost of some kind in front for that super tight chug metalcore is known for. (gain to zero, level and tone up). Tubescreamers are a popular choice but if you're like me, you may not want as much mid hump and prefer to preserve your amp's natural character and just tighten it. For that, an MXR Timmy is pretty flat and then it's just a matter of turning the bass down until it's as tight as you need (then compensate by turning your amp bass up if too much needed to come out) and turning up the treble until the attack is where you need it.

Maybe you'd like more control, something with a selectable mid frequency so you can dial in the mid boost and amount exactly where you want it. I had one custom built and it's a complete one-off unfortunately, but I love the look of the Walrus Audio Emissary which has a selectable mid switch, including where the Tubescreamer would boost. Then there's a few kicking around with a knob that lets you sweep around until you find the sweet spot. Next order of business, there's plenty of EQs both graphic and parametric to choose from to put in your FX loop and fine tune the overall distortion character until it's as brutal and fits the band as much as possible. With graphic, which frequency bands it contains is just as important as the amount of bands. Mesa put out a graphic EQ that uses the same frequencies they have specifically chosen for their amps with built in EQs so you can get the ever popular 750 band cut! I myself have an MXR 10 band and I haven't bought another EQ since as it's so versatile and can do just about anything.

Lastly. Speaker changes make for the most noticeably drastic change in tone. What speakers you're running in your cabinet and even the cabinet itself makes a tremendous world of difference. Almost any deficiency in an otherwise decent hi-gain tone can be solved by changing the cabinet or at least the speakers if not both. Some people find GT-75s too thin or Vintage 30s too nasal and grating so I recommend listening to as many speaker demos online as you can to make the determination if you need a speaker change. My absolute favourite is the GK-85 (The GK100 is quite similar if you can't find one). Smooth, tight, full, clean and powerful. Close seconds are the Eminence Legend (I find it's all the good of a Vintage 30 without any of the bad) or the WGS Veteran 30. Then of course in any cab with more than one speakers you can blend and get the best of both (or four technically!) worlds. The Celestion GK and the Veteran together in my main rig is whole package. Touchdown.

I hope that helps. I'm open to further comments or questions.

[Top-L]

Hey guys,

I have a question about some amps. For some backup information I recently got moved to lead guitar in my band after much pressure from them. We play like metalcore and easycore stuff; everyone’s favorite two genres within this community I know.

I currently use a DSL100 and love it. The reason for the amp change is because I am wanting something that is a bit tighter in sound and less mid-range.

The specific amps that I am deciding between is the 5150, 6505+, and 6534+.

Any help is appreciated!
Thanks!

This post doesn't make any sense.

My advice, get a Boss SD-1, engage it for your solos. Set your amp with less midrange for rhythm. If that amp accepts 6L6 tubes, install them.

If your cab is V30s, get a cab with 12GT75s.

[Calsip]

Yeah, I was thinking a DSL should be able to be augmented to get close -more gain into the pre, EQ in more 100, 200 Hz, Eq out some of the 800 and 1k, and maybe go with a deeper sounding 12Ax7 per amp tubes and a maybe even try stepping up the bias slightly to compress the mids down may help.

Or get wild and go distortion pedal straight into the effects loop bypassing the pre.

Also, speakers are probably the biggest component -what speakers are you pushing?

I am running into an Orange PPC 212 with Vintage 30. I also already have tubes that are more towards that sound. I can’t recall what they are but they are JJs.


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[El Dunco]

I am running into an Orange PPC 212 with Vintage 30. I also already have tubes that are more towards that sound. I can’t recall what they are but they are JJs.


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Some people are going to fight me on this but the science doesn't lie. Beyond actually changing tube types, there's very little noticeable difference between one 12AX7 and another. The debate was settled pretty conclusively when a sine-wave was run through the same signal chain changing only the tube brand, not the type and null-tested them (ran them out of phase) and they literally cancelled each other completely, revealing an identical sound. That doesn't mean it's not worth trying out different preamp tubes in the v1 position at all, just that it should be a lower priority, after the boost and EQ. I'd be very surprised if those two things won't make a DSL do metalcore well through a V30.

[CaptainWhizz]

What amp is the other guitarist using? What don’t you like about the DSL100 for hardcore/ easycore? You can tighten it up with a pedal, as has been said, and a lot of players run tubescreamers into 5150s/ 6505s anyway, which boost mids.

[NegativeEase]

Some people are going to fight me on this but the science doesn't lie. Beyond actually changing tube types, there's very little noticeable difference between one 12AX7 and another. The debate was settled pretty conclusively when a sine-wave was run through the same signal chain changing only the tube brand, not the type and null-tested them (ran them out of phase) and they literally cancelled each other completely, revealing an identical sound. That doesn't mean it's not worth trying out different preamp tubes in the v1 position at all, just that it should be a lower priority, after the boost and EQ. I'd be very surprised if those two things won't make a DSL do metalcore well through a V30.

OP is wanting tighter and less mids -aging tubes lose low end and get fizzy -even more so on the power section -It doesn't matter between brands as much (but I can show you where they are different on a scope is you cant hear it -but to your point it's not significant as the wear/age of the tubes). If the OP knows the rating on his current tubes and are 6 or less, I would probably change the power tubes out for ones rated cleaner because they make bigger lows and tighter usually -like a GT rated 7 or 8. and create the big gain from SS pedals and the pre section -and he probably would want an L rated tube NOT an R or M for a tighter modern bigger lower end less mid sound.

[El Dunco]

OP is wanting tighter and less mids -aging tubes lose low end and get fizzy -even more so on the power section -It doesn't matter between brands as much (but I can show you where they are different on a scope is you cant hear it -but to your point it's not significant as the wear/age of the tubes). If the OP knows the rating on his current tubes and are 6 or less, I would probably change the power tubes out for ones rated cleaner because they make bigger lows and tighter usually -like a GT rated 7 or 8. and create the big gain from SS pedals and the pre section -and he probably would want an L rated tube NOT an R or M for a tighter modern bigger lower end less mid sound.

Yeah that makes sense if they've degraded.

[Bogner]

A pedal out front could easily solve this along with some EQ tweaks on the amp. An EQ in the loop may not even be necessary but I could see two pedals (Boost, EQ) worst case scenario solving the problem. You may be able to get by with one pedal.