Alnico & Ceramic speaker magnet tone: myth or reality ??.

[Gold star]

The speaker is one of the most important aspects of tone. I think a Vox through Greenbacks still sounds like a Vox. But at the same time, I think the Vox through a pair of Blues is the Vox sound, IMO.

why do you think that is ? something that happened by accident ? as you mentioned, they are rated at 15 watt, so will likely to distort sooner ...

[idsnowdog]

I have both and I have found Alnico's don't sound very good in closed cabs. In open backed cabs I like a mix.

[Rex_Rocker]

why do you think that is ? something that happened by accident ? as you mentioned, they are rated at 15 watt, so will likely to distort sooner ...

No, I say that because most of the iconic Vox records that I can think of have been recorded with Blues rather than Greenbacks, so that's what we're used to hearing for "The Vox Sound".

I love Greenbacks, BTW. I've never tried a Blue, but I'd love to. Then again, I don't play the usual kind of music that's played through Alnicos. But I still think the Alnico Gold works remarkably well for what I play.

[jeremy]

The speaker is one of the most important aspects of tone. I think a Vox through Greenbacks still sounds like a Vox. But at the same time, I think the Vox through a pair of Blues is the Vox sound, IMO.

i agree with this. to me, the "vox" sound is ac30 through blues (or silvers if ya wanna get picky). greenbacks tend toward what i think is a marshally tone but a fine speaker for sure

[ICTGoober]

yes you do that

Okay, I asked... He said it's pretty complicated, but there is very little difference between alnico magnets or ceramic magnets as far as what you can hear. Why? Because of flux density changes in the coil (and coil sizes differ). Heat affects the sound, too - especially on ceramic magnets. Alnico - heat doesn't affect the sound as much.

The big deal is the cab. Open back, or closed back? Speakers mounted side by side, one above the other, or at an angle makes a lot of difference. Feet on the bottom of the cab, or no feet? Wheels? Cabinet material and speaker mounting on the baffleboard (front or rear), affects the sound.

One thing that has no affect? Speaker companies make all this noise about using oxygen free copper wires in such and such a weave - it's all bull****.

He suggested you watch a bunch of Johan Segeborn videos where he compares speakers - like 12 or 16, one at a time. Very informative stuff. Good luck!

[Gold star]

Okay, I asked... He said it's pretty complicated, but there is very little difference between alnico magnets or ceramic magnets as far as what you can hear. Why? Because of flux density changes in the coil (and coil sizes differ). Heat affects the sound, too - especially on ceramic magnets. Alnico - heat doesn't affect the sound as much.

The big deal is the cab. Open back, or closed back? Speakers mounted side by side, one above the other, or at an angle makes a lot of difference. Feet on the bottom of the cab, or no feet? Wheels? Cabinet material and speaker mounting on the baffleboard (front or rear), affects the sound.

One thing that has no affect? Speaker companies make all this noise about using oxygen free copper wires in such and such a weave - it's all bull****.

He suggested you watch a bunch of Johan Segeborn videos where he compares speakers - like 12 or 16, one at a time. Very informative stuff. Good luck!

OK thanks for that. I had a look at the famous Celestion Alnico blue, 12" . The magnet is quite deep on that , the cone is deep. It's rated at 15 watts which seems low. Quite expensive to buy. The other thing is they weigh some 9.3 pounds. Quite a weight for a speaker, but people seem to love the effect on the sound of an amp

[marcello252]

I don't think alnico are warmer, I think it's just the way the higher freqs are compressed being different

[ICTGoober]

Then there are neodymium magnets. When they first debuted they got a lot of hate. Now engineers are getting the mix of metals right, etc., and the sound is more acceptable to the public. Their deal is more power, with less weight. For instance - The George Benson Fender Twin features neodymium magnets on the speakers, and it weighs about 15 pounds less than normal alnico magnet speakers. George liked that because he still schleps his gear, and he's no spring chicken. Something to think about.

[Gold star]

i agree with this. to me, the "vox" sound is ac30 through blues (or silvers if ya wanna get picky). greenbacks tend toward what i think is a marshally tone but a fine speaker for sure

From the samples I've heard, the blue speaker takes the harshness out of the highs. how much do Celestion Blue's sell for in the US? I'm guessing $250..a good deal more than Jensen anyway. Also I learnt a 12" Blue weighs about 9.5 pounds so in a twin that's more weight to move around

[Rex_Rocker]

From the samples I've heard, the blue speaker takes the harshness out of the highs. how much do Celestion Blue's sell for in the US? I'm guessing $250..a good deal more than Jensen anyway. Also I learnt a 12" Blue weighs about 9.5 pounds so in a twin that's more weight to move around

I wouldn't say the Blue takes the harshness out of the highs compared to Greenbacks. At least on the clips I've heard. I think it's the other way around. Not that Bues are fizzy or harsh, but they're definitely more strident. Greenbacks overall are woody and squishy.

Maybe a Blue would be warmer than an H30. Maybe.

No direct experience with Blues, but I'm a HUGE fan of Greenbacks. I've got a 1x12 and a 4x12 loaded with Vox-labeled (in the 1x12), regular Chinese, and regular UK Greenbacks X-pattern in the 4x12), and I've also had Creambacks and G12-EVH's, so I like to think I know how Greenbacks behave more or less. Now I've got a Gold in a 1x12. Celestion describe the Gold as mellower than the Blue. If anything, I'd say the Gold is the brightest, most strident of the bunch that I own.

[Lake Placid Blues]

I remember a post by someone on the old plexi palace forum. Back then people were putting Blues in Blues Breaker reissues in place of the Greenbacks when going for the Beano tone. The poster said that the main difference was in the attack. Alnico starts and stops the cone less abruptly.

Someone who used to post here back in the day and who owned some original silvers, once said that alnicos are brighter/chimier than ceramic but its a good kind of bright.

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

Is there an alt 8 speaker? Maybe I need one