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**Scott_F** · 06-03-2006, 01:44 PM

Re: blackface

Black face refers to Fender amps produced during the mid-to-late 60's. The controls had a black faceplate. Around 67 or 68, at some point along the way, various models were converted to the Silver face in order to increase clean headroom. Many feel like that attempt to increase headroom killed off the amp's soul. Many others will argue that the reverb part of the amp got better when this change occured.

That's it in a nutshell.

**STRATDELUXER97** · 06-03-2006, 01:55 PM

Re: blackface

Originally posted by Scott_F

Black face refers to Fender reverb amps produced during the mid-to-late 60's. The controls had a black faceplate. Around 67 or 68, at some point along the way, various models were converted to the Silver face in order to increase clean headroom. Many feel like that attempt to increase headroom killed off the amp's soul. Many others will argue that the reverb part of the amp got better when this change occured.

That's it in a nutshell.

Scott...Not all BlackFaced Fender amps had reverb...

Sorry just had to!

Bandmaster,Bassman,Deluxe,etc...

**OlinMusic** · 06-03-2006, 02:05 PM

Re: blackface

Let's add that the circuit started to change into the 70s as Fender wnted to keep up with the High Gain craze. They started adding Master Volumes, changing stock speaker types - achieving higher outputs, Silicon Rectos etc etc which gave the amps a tighter (re: stiffer?) feel, and as Scott said, allowing mre clean headroom etc.

Both are cool and have their own thing. But if you lke bluesy vintage breakup on your cranked up, Blackface is often the way to go.

Hey I have heard that Mark Knoplfer used a Silver Face, as well as Albert Collins, BB King, etc so you never know - the SF's can sound amazing as well.

**STRATDELUXER97** · 06-03-2006, 02:11 PM

Re: blackface

Originally posted by OlinMusic

Let's add that the circuit started to change into the 70s as Fender wnted to keep up with the High Gain craze. They started adding Master Volumes, changing stock speaker types - achieving higher outputs, Silicon Rectos etc etc which gave the amps a tighter (re: stiffer?) feel, and as Scott said, allowing mre clean headroom etc.

Both are cool and have their own thing. But if you lke bluesy vintage breakup on your cranked up, Blackface is often the way to go.

Hey I have heard that Mark Knoplfer used a Silver Face, as well as Albert Collins, BB King, etc so you never know - the SF's can sound amazing as well.

BF Twins had silicon rectifiers(4007 diodes)...

**the guy who invented fire** · 06-03-2006, 05:51 PM

Re: blackface

Imjust gonna say that there is a lot of info in this thread already that is not correct, but some that is...

The best thing to do is read up...and here is a good place to start!

Page not found

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/

In short answer to your question Fender amps had a black face plate from 1963 to 1967 as a general rule...there are a few exceptions to that rule and you'll have to read up to get them all. As for people saying that they have their Silverface Fender "Blackfaced" what they are saying is that they are having a post 1968 Fender amp modded to pre 1967 Specs.

**STRATDELUXER97** · 06-03-2006, 07:12 PM

Re: blackface

Originally posted by the guy who invented fire

Imjust gonna say that there is a lot of info in this thread already that is not correct, but some that is...

The best thing to do is read up...and here is a good place to start!

Page not found

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/

In short answer to your question Fender amps had a black face plate from 1963 to 1967 as a general rule...there are a few exceptions to that rule and you'll have to read up to get them all. As for people saying that they have their Silverface Fender "Blackfaced" what they are saying is that they are having a post 1968 Fender amp modded to pre 1967 Specs.

**benbenben** · 06-03-2006, 07:42 PM

Re: blackface

i tried one of the newer fender amps. the deluxe reverb, i was quite impressed, the cleans were very sparkly and showed lots of clarity. i played a fender 50s custom ship relic, and whatever they say about relics, i was very impressed by the feel and the tone. lovely. what u guys think of the deluxe reverb. how about the vibrolux?
i can't get 2nd hand amps from US cause im in Australia so anything i should look around for in 2nd hand shops or even first hand stuff that won't require my selling my house and leaving my parents no place to stay.

**benbenben** · 06-03-2006, 07:45 PM

Re: blackface

oh also, whats this headroom business? sorry, i'm sorta new to this, but i guess its cause im looking out for a new amp so i wanna be prepared before i get commited into any relationship. :P

**kmcguitars** · 06-03-2006, 07:52 PM

Re: blackface

Originally posted by OlinMusic

Let's add that the circuit started to change into the 70s as Fender wnted to keep up with the High Gain craze. They started adding Master Volumes, changing stock speaker types - achieving higher outputs, Silicon Rectos etc etc which gave the amps a tighter (re: stiffer?) feel, and as Scott said, allowing mre clean headroom etc.

Both are cool and have their own thing. But if you lke bluesy vintage breakup on your cranked up, Blackface is often the way to go.
.

Actually, Fender (CBS) seemed to go the other way during the so called high gain craze. CBS hired suit & tie like electronics engineers to check there circuits. Theses fella's discovered that ole' Leo's designs where flawed!! They where prone to distort.

So they went ahead and fixed them (Much the way you take your dog or cat to be fixed

) They did add a master vol. on some of the later models, But the Silverface line aside from a few component changes Stayed pretty true to the original BF designs, So in most cases it's not to hard to return it to Pre- CBS BF specs. All the BF tube recto model's I can think of retained there tube recto onto the SF Model's. Only difference is that CBS may have dropped the voltage ratings on the SF models?

**STRATDELUXER97** · 06-03-2006, 07:55 PM

Re: blackface

Originally posted by kmcguitars

Actually, Fender (CBS) seemed to go the other way during the so called high gain craze. CBS hired suit & tie like electronics engineers to check there circuits. Theses fella's discovered that ole' Leo's designs where flawed!! They where prone to distort.

So they went ahead and fixed them (Much the way you take your dog or cat to be fixed

) They did add a master vol. on some of the later models, But the Silverface line aside from a few component changes Stayed pretty true to the original BF designs, So in most cases it's not to hard to return it to Pre- CBS BF specs. All the BF tube recto model's I can think of retained there tube recto onto the SF Model's. Only difference is that CBS may have dropped the voltage ratings on the SF models?

I didn't want to say too much on this post either...

**jdm61** · 06-03-2006, 09:43 PM

Re: blackface

Originally posted by the guy who invented fire

Imjust gonna say that there is a lot of info in this thread already that is not correct, but some that is...

The best thing to do is read up...and here is a good place to start!

Page not found

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/

In short answer to your question Fender amps had a black face plate from 1963 to 1967 as a general rule...there are a few exceptions to that rule and you'll have to read up to get them all. As for people saying that they have their Silverface Fender "Blackfaced" what they are saying is that they are having a post 1968 Fender amp modded to pre 1967 Specs.

And lest we forget, the early silverface amps still had the blackface circuit.

**jdm61** · 06-03-2006, 09:46 PM

Re: blackface

Easy definition of headroom is how loud the amp will get before it distorts.

**Bludave** · 06-03-2006, 11:02 PM

Re: blackface

Originally posted by benbenben

i tried one of the newer fender amps. the deluxe reverb, i was quite impressed, the cleans were very sparkly and showed lots of clarity. i played a fender 50s custom ship relic, and whatever they say about relics, i was very impressed by the feel and the tone. lovely. what u guys think of the deluxe reverb. how about the vibrolux?
i can't get 2nd hand amps from US cause im in Australia so anything i should look around for in 2nd hand shops or even first hand stuff that won't require my selling my house and leaving my parents no place to stay.

Fender recently Reissued a few of the blackface amps that were original designs in the early 60's. The Twin, the Super Reverb and the Deluxe Reverb. These recreations of classic amps are nice amps, but the designs are considerably different than the originals. Most of the Fender made in the early 60's were hand wired and point to point. The new amps tube sockets are mounted on PC boards. Some people will argue that PC board made amps are not very good...... It really depends on the quality of the PC board. A heavy board will resist heat better and is less likely to have warping problems and broken solder joints. Point to point is simply a better design, more dependable, but also much more labor intense to make which usually drives the price of point to point amps up. The 3 amps I mention are all very nice sounding amps, but they sound quite a bit different than the original amps they were modeled after. There are a lot of reasons, but as the Guy who invented fire suggested do your research and you will see that litttl componant changes can make a huge difference in the way an amps sounds and responds to your touch.

Headroom is a term that is used to describe the point of when a tube amp begins to distort naturally due to driving the tubes harder. The rule of thumb is the more wattage tha amp has the larger amount of headroom you will have. A Twin has 85 watts and is very lound and very clean, where a Deluxe Reverb is 22 watts and is a very desireable amp because it "breaks up" at low vlome levels and makes it work very well in low volume settings. A Super Reverb is 40 watts it has a lot more headroom than a DR does, and it also has 4 10" speakers which makes it hold the bottom a lot better , but also makes the amp heavy and harder to move from one place to another.

**Scott_F** · 06-03-2006, 11:25 PM

Re: blackface

I have a first year "drip-edge" Pro Reverb silverface (68). It's funny, in that on the tube chart, it had the old blackfaced code number, but the internal circuit was definitely silverfaced. It didnt' take too long to switch it back.

My biggest reason for doing it was the bias adjustment pot that worked so well on the blackface amps had been turned into a balance control so you could "balance" out mismatched power tubes. The problem is that you were pretty much stuck with the bias point unless you wanted to change out a resistor each time you changed your tubes. Bleh! It took all of about 30 minutes to change.

Oh wait, I introduced a new term "Drip-Edge". It refers to the shiny strip of metal edging that ran around the grill cloth perimeter. I think that was a one-year cosmetic experiment.

Sorry if I provided any mis-information in my above thread. I always associate blackface amps wtih the reverb models of the mid-sixties.

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