Has modelling "topped out"?

[ParameterMan]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

I tell you, my current driving reasons to switch to all tube are feel, simplicity and reliability. I can get great sounds out of my Johnson JM150(I agree with Artie on Johnson modeling), but it gets to be too many menus, buttons and switches to manipulate on the fly. And there's something one dimensional about the attack feel. And it keeps glitching, like any piece of digital gear I've used. Sometimes the encoders work backwards, sometimes the controller doesn't talk to it properly, and hanging over everything is the off chance that I could meet a power blip that loses me all my presets.

So I get to longing for a nice tube amp that I can plug in, turn on, and rock away.

[ArtieToo]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

I think I understand this. A speaker can't move in the chunks that digital approximates with, it has to move smoothly meaning that the air will be pushed. There are no instantaneous pressure changes like the digital approximations would demand, it's not possible.

Yes, but even before this . . . amplifiers don't reproduce a digital signal. All digital processing happens in the early stages of an audio signal. The signal that comes out of a CD player is exactly the same as what comes out of cassette deck, which is the same that comes out of an FM tuner. Its also the same as what comes out of a computer sound card.

"Digital" happens in the transmission stage of audio. The hi-fi portion is exactly the same as what happened in your grandpa's days. Nothing has been improved on, or changed since then. Component tolerances, yes. Technology, no.

[El Dunco]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

What would be good is a combination of the 2. An amp tube driven, but with lots of tone shaping controls so everyone could have the same amp and sound different and you still get all the advantages of tube sound.

[ponch]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

Man, Im dam happy with my 12 watt kustom tube 12 and my korg MODLer but what the hell. I mean the hell with what happens. If you like your tone then you'll hold on to it despite the tube or 24 bit chip in it. Some people like thier Power blocks with their roland synths and parker fly's, while others like their all tube music man with their 50's strats. To hell whith it, someone out there is still going to think we sound like ass, while others will go ga-ga over the tone. So, yeah, there is still a long way's to go in tone modlers.

[ponch]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

What would be good is a combination of the 2. An amp tube driven, but with lots of tone shaping controls so everyone could have the same amp and sound different and you still get all the advantages of tube sound.

There are, but you have to run either a floor board like a GT8 into a power amp. One thing ive done is use my korg amp modler in to a kustom tube 12. not really it, but close since i don't have much dough. My freind used a duncan tube amp with a gt hate procesor, close too. you can do it too. It's sorta simple. many high end amps have the inputs in the back for just that reason.

[LesStrat]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

I don't have the patience to read 7+ pages of

"Modelling sux."

"No it doesn't"

"Yes, it does."

*rinse & repeat*

Modelling is still in it's infancy. Many of you are too young to remember the evolution of tube amps (and much of it was before MY time). They weren't always "GREAT," despite the contentions of Tube Snobs everywhere.

Consider the advances in modelling in the few short years since its inception. The differences between the original L6 technology and the xt are phenomenal.

Tube Amps haven't peaked yet, either. Play a Celtic.

[JOLLY]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

No, modeling has not topped out.

[daemon barbeque]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

Well i never liked the POD ,i hated the GT 6 amp models ,i still hate the amp models on my Korg pandora ,but i bought the Vox ad50 after 15 minutes of testing!
There are many important points.The most important one is the Cabinet.If you ever play a Valvetronix head with a good cabinet ,you will be really pleased with what you're hearing!And if you play MArshall models with a Marshall 1960 cab ,you can swear it is a Marshall!
Many people play modellers with their computer jacked to the Hi-Fi ,and tell that the sound is not "amp" like.Ofcourse it is not.Play it thru some real cabinets ,and you will know what i mean.
BTW ,the price of the Vox Tonelab series are at the bottom point now.This means "new stuff on NAMM"!At least i hope so!
I am certain that No Modeller is exact the same thing that is modelled from ,but a Vox AD is a strong equipment wich delivers many different sounds and effects.I can jump from a Soldano Lead with some delay and reverb on it to a Bassman sound with some phaser with one switch.And it is really great if you need more of that kind of sounds.

Still i am Jonesing for a Diezel Herbert wich has MIDI and a TC Electronic G-System ,wich give me all the tonal possibilities and relieability.But only over 40 watts of power!

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

I can't believe people really can say stuff like, "Stuff from the 60's is fine. Why try to do any better?" with a straight face.

Especially people with high gain amplifiers, equipped with more knobs than "volume, bass, treble"

[ponch]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

Let it die already, and lets all laugh at the Mac comercial where PC has to go listen to EMO!!!! LOLZ 11111

[coachc55]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

Not by a long shot. Has digital technology topped out? Hell no. Just as digital video, audio and photography have improved to the point where tape players and film cameras are becoming obsolete, digital technology will improve in the amp modeling business. I don't think will see the end of tube amps but I do think that technology will always improve in the amp modeling business. Not as much in the feature area but in the quality of the modeling. That's just my opinion.

Thanks,
CoachC

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

Here's another question relating to modelling. Who's to say when they build the perfect tube amp models for you that they haven't also figured out how to get rid of needing the guitarist as well?

For example, keyboards have guitar voices. If modelling means we don't need tube amps, won't keyboards (synthesizers / computers / MIDI) eventually replace the need to even have a guitarist?

I know it sounds sort of odd, but to me it's along the same illogical lines: if modelling will eliminate the need for tube amps, I feel that by the same token, keyboards, MIDI, and the like, will replace the need for a guitarist. As it is, a keyboard can almost eliminate the need for a string section.

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

Here's another question relating to modelling. Who's to say when they build the perfect tube amp models for you that they haven't also figured out how to get rid of needing the guitarist as well?

For example, keyboards have guitar voices. If modelling means we don't need tube amps, won't keyboards (synthesizers / computers / MIDI) eventually replace the need to even have a guitarist?

I know it sounds sort of odd, but to me it's along the same illogical lines: if modelling will eliminate the need for tube amps, I feel that by the same token, keyboards, MIDI, and the like, will replace the need for a guitarist. As it is, a keyboard can almost eliminate the need for a string section.

Ask the 80s

By the same token, wouldn't the keyboard ultimately replace EVERY instrument, including a separate vocalist? And after that, wouldn't a laptop computer replace the keyboard?

There's relatively little chance of any of this happening. Why? The cool factor. Playing a guitar looks cool, and as long as there are dudes chasing tail, anything else could happen and you'll still have said dudes buying and playing guitars.

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

Here's another question relating to modelling. Who's to say when they build the perfect tube amp models for you that they haven't also figured out how to get rid of needing the guitarist as well?

For example, keyboards have guitar voices. If modelling means we don't need tube amps, won't keyboards (synthesizers / computers / MIDI) eventually replace the need to even have a guitarist?

I know it sounds sort of odd, but to me it's along the same illogical lines: if modelling will eliminate the need for tube amps, I feel that by the same token, keyboards, MIDI, and the like, will replace the need for a guitarist. As it is, a keyboard can almost eliminate the need for a string section.

Keyboard players lack the "coolness" factor of a guitar player,plus the guitar is a solo instrument.I don't see the guitar being ever put to the backround..

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

Well my opinion is that it just lacks the organic factor. I would never (unless budget forces me) replace any instrument, whatsoever, with a keyboard, whether on a CD or live. It lacks, to me, the "street cred" factor as well (anyone, given enough time, can MIDI an entire CD).