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Are out of phase PP, PJ, soapbar, and MM pickups a common thing?

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  • Are out of phase PP, PJ, soapbar, and MM pickups a common thing?

    Hi everyone,
    I normally post in the guitar forums. I've been playing around with the Triple Shot mounting rings. That got me thinking about bass and whether a lot of switching options on bass is a popular thing, especially since many bass players tend to dial in their tone on their basses and not their amps.

    So I found this video:

    series and out of phase wiringSoldhttps://reverb.com/shop/guy-s-gear-garagehttp://stores.ebay.com/sweetdeal73/MUSICAL-INSTRUMENTS-/_i.html?_fsub=46 ..As an e...


    Doing stuff like this on a Jazz bass doesn't surprise me because of its versatility and association with fretless playing and Jaco.

    However, I prefer a PJ or even a PP bass (I find BC Rich predominantly makes these--I prefer them to two soapbar basses) when playing 4 string. I started to wonder if a lot of these switching options would be worth the trouble of installation on my basses.

    For reference, I like the Fender Original (non-Custom Shop) bass pickups and use my amp/DAW settings to make up any difference in output or tone. I find these pickups are very clean, articulate, and even vs. something like a Quarter Pounder which for me is a bit much.

    In my experience, going parallel on a bass really only helps if you have a really muddy or oversaturated pickup and want to clear things up a bit.

    I'm thinking about DiMarzio P bass pickups here, mainly, as I know they are wired for 4 conductor and, in my experience, can be a bit much if one is looking for clarity and a vintage sound.

    However, I have rarely heard of a phase switch on basses, especially PJ and PP models (I'm not even sure it can be done due to how a P bass pickup is built--I assume the E and A coil would be put out of phase with the D and G coil, or perhaps one entire split P with the other split P in a PP setup).

    To my ears, a soapbar bass is the most bland sounding. It seems to try to emulate a Jazz bass without hum and an MM but sounds completely like neither. I would be interested in trying series/parallel/phase on these mainly because they are so common. I more or less think of them as a bass version of a guitar humbucker. I regret that more and more new basses seem to be going this way in terms of construction, probably due to reduced costs of construction.

    To my ears, an MM sounds fullest, especially a dual MM. My understanding is MM pickups generally can be wired a lot of ways. Most of the possible switching options are demonstrated here:

    Ed Friedland - The Bass Whisperer demonstrates the Ernie Ball Music Man 25th Anniversary Model HH 5 string bass. Print review in Guitar World Magazine 10/09.


    In the first video above, the Jazz bass didn't sound as different to me out of phase as a guitar does (I associate out of phase and parallel sounds with funk guitar). In fact, it sounds like a phaser could be dialed in to produce the exact same sound by notching out certain frequencies. Going series/parallel just seems to thin out the sound, almost like turning up a tone knob to treble.

    In short, my conclusion is you could put series/parallel and phase switches on a bass, but the results wouldn't be as noticeable as on a guitar.

    I would appreciate everyone else's thoughts/advice on this, as I'm sure I'm probably wrong.

    Thanks all.

  • #2
    I think EQ would be a more valuable tool on bass. Bass waves are pretty long (8-32+ feet); so long that the average person cannot localize where the bass is coming from in a typical home or small room (hence why you only need one sub-woofer on home theaters and it doesn't matter where you place it, though against a wall increases it's response). Having those waves out of phase I don't think would provide an effect so much as cancelling some notes or frequencies you need. But you can always try it and report back.

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    • #3
      Thanks, beaubrummels . I didn't think of canceling frequencies as affecting a mix, but I'm sure it would alter how the guitar and bass fit together, especially in a rock context where you have to be careful of how the kick, bass, and low end of the guitar all sit together.

      Mostly I thought of phase/parallel wiring for bass as kind of a 60s acid rock thing, which I don't do but I thought perhaps might be cool during sections where the bass plays by itself or dominates a song.

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      • #4
        Bartolinis seem like another bass pickup manufacturer where things could get complex in a hurry if one wanted to, especially with their soapbars that are like two split P's combined to make a square. If I recall these have four coils so that the pickup can be dialed in as a P, reverse P, front or back coil Jazz bass, or full humbucker.

        I haven't tried them because I don't particularly like the sound. Barts have an open, airy quality that I think is as close to an active bass sound as is possible on a passive bass pickup (Lace Alumitones might be a close second).

        They sound fine when the bass plays by itself but I find myself reaching for a traditional Fender sound over and over again.

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        • #5
          As an alternative, you might consider trying a bass-cut switch, using either a straight cap or a network like ArtieToo's DeMud Mod.
          Bass cut plus treble rolloff from the standard tone control could give you a mid-centric tone to experiment with.
          .
          "You should know better by now than to introduce science into a discussion of voodoo."
          .

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          • #6
            Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post
            I think EQ would be a more valuable tool on bass. Bass waves are pretty long (8-32+ feet); so long that the average person cannot localize where the bass is coming from in a typical home or small room (hence why you only need one sub-woofer on home theaters and it doesn't matter where you place it, though against a wall increases it's response). Having those waves out of phase I don't think would provide an effect so much as cancelling some notes or frequencies you need. But you can always try it and report back.
            This.
            I've played a few basses with series/parallel and phase switches and otherwise passive electronics and the results weren't exactly stellar compared to what's achievable these days. These sorts of wiring schemes were pretty amazing in the 60s and early 70s, but active electronics make them largely obsolete unless you're going for a deliberately retro sound. I'm a big fan of the EMG-BT 2-band EQ with its tuneable treble band. Instead of a fixed treble frequency, the circuit board has a pair of dip switches that allow you to select from 4 preset frequencies depending on what the bass or amp call for. I generally don't care for 3-band preamps except when recording as they can be difficult to dial in quickly.
            Originally posted by crusty philtrum
            And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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