Are most bass manufacturers shifting to soapbars and J style pickups?

[Inflames626]

Hi all,
I'm noticing on extended range basses, especially 5 strings, manufacturers seem to be moving more and more to soapbar and J style bass only pickups. They may have different coil configurations within that soapbar, or they may make the J style hum canceling, but I seem to notice these designs more than, say, a 5 string Musicman or P/PJ/PP bass.

I do think coil size/geometry/the amount of string the pickup senses over the magnets does make a difference in tone, so to me a P bass pickup in a soapbar really isn't the same as a true P bass if the dimensions are different. The coils may be staggered inside the soapbar casing much like a P bass, but again, this isn't the same to me as a true P bass.

I think SD realizes this too. They wouldn't have stacked J bass pickups as well as their Apollos if such things didn't matter.

Anyway, I feel like with more and more basses going to soapbars and J bass styles, it's a little depressing for those of us who may like say a PJ sound or a dual pickup Musicman but are forced to go to custom shop options if we want those sounds/form factors in 5 string+ versions.

Just thought I'd get everyone's thoughts on this. Thanks.

[Inflames626]

My guess is it's easier to mass produce basses when you just need to route two soapbar pickup cavities in the body than something like a PP design found on older BC Rich basses or a PJ bass body that may have different J pickup dimensions from bass to bass (say Mexican vs. American Fender).

[Mincer]

I think on 5 strings (and more), the industry is trying to settle on a 'standard' shape and dimension that works for factory and replacement pickups. I am seeing more soapbar and J bass shapes than anything, too.

[Inflames626]

Mincer , I am surprised that, nearly 30 years after Korn popularized 7 string guitars in 1994, we are still somewhat slow in seeing 6 string basses becoming common/popular at a relatively cheap price, at least bolt on versions. Most I see seem to be exotic neck thru versions with elaborate wood grain patterns. Maybe this is better to keep the neck stable but I'm not seeing the same revolution among 6 string basses as I did with 5 strings. I can understand staying with soapbars there just because of the width, but something like a 6 string PJ or PP would be very cool and different.

I know Ibanez makes the Gio and other such 6 string lines but I like to always try to go one tier above the very cheapest instruments as I find the concessions you make for rock bottom prices often aren't worth it.

I remember many of my students were children between ages 10-13. Their parents would often buy them smaller than usual starter guitars meant for kids or cheap guitars with hardware that would not hold the strings in place. When stable tuning is an issue even above fit and finish you might as well just save for the next tier up.

Meanwhile with the commonality of excellent, cheap 5 strings like those made by Jackson and LTD there almost seems to be no reason to buy a 4 string unless one is a traditionalist or, like me, insists on a genuine shape/form factor for a pickup.

One of my friends in a thrash/melodic death metal band was forced to play on a 4 string bass after technical difficulties at a show (he usually played 5/6 string basses). He said he felt like he had gone back to the 1970s.

[Mincer]

5 strings remain a lot more popular than 6s. I think it is because while most bassists who just play the bass part (and don't solo much) can benefit from a lower string without the neck changing too much, adding a higher string doesn't sound, well, bassy enough.
Also, some people like bass string spacing which makes a much wider neck, and some hate the strings being closer together to keep the neck small. There isn't really a consensus on how to do it that is accepted by all.
I'd love a 6 string bass with a lower bass string instead, but you'd need the right amplification and strings to make that work.

[Inflames626]

Similar to my experience on the 8 string post, the first time I had bought a 5 string I wanted it strung with a high C string (or because I was 16 at the time I thought it was a B string like on a guitar and I wanted to match the guitar more in higher registers). I think it was a 1997 U.S. made Peavey Foundation 5. It was essentially a hum canceling J bass with slightly wider proprietary single coils instead of a stacked version or full size soapbar. This was the mid-late 90s and it was a bit difficult to find the proper diameter for a higher than normal string in most shops. They just sold 6 string sets very rarely.

At the time I thought the Peavey was an active bass because the dog earred pickups were covered like EMGs. Interestingly enough for a somewhat budget bass, the pickups were curved to match the radius of the fretboard. I was disappointed to find out later that the bass wasn't active but it later became my workhorse--good for a guitarist who plays bass and needs to accompany their own material during recording. To this day I tend to prefer active guitars, especially for detuned stuff, and passive basses, which I think retain warmth even if they are a little harder for me to mix than an active bass.

It's identical to the one pictured below minus the blemish. I love the maple fretboard. I'm not a big tone wood guy but I do think maple can help something like a Jazz bass or Strat sound a little snappier and brighter than rosewood or ebony.

I'm not always big on Peavey's guitar designs but I think a lot of their basses are sleeper deals. I have a Grind 6 that weights about 12 lbs. Kind of like their old T-stuff from the late 70s/early 80s--like playing on Victorian furniture. And their active Cirrus 6s to this day always seem to fetch top dollar on the used market. It reminds me a lot of the old Carvin LB76s with their beautiful walnut stripes and bodies.

Once I started tuning lower (say below D standard), I really liked the compromise 5 strings gave me. C standard on a 5 is probably my favorite tuning because you can tune up 1/2 step without straining the strings or bass and yet have a higher string left over because the notes on the strings have all shifted down one string. I do tend to keep guitar tunings on a bass even though I see the benefit of C and F strings to prevent hand shifting on such big necks.

As for my 6 I may keep it for detuned stuff or get a second 6, find a relatively light set of strings, and keep it in E standard tuning for more melodic content in higher registers.

Another benefit to playing metal for situations like this is when the instruments you prefer tend to be gloss black and passive bolt ons. There's less cost there than if you want a neck through instrument made of exotic wood with active tone controls and piezos.

[Mincer]

Schecter makes a Hellcat, which is sort of a 30" scale baritone, but the one I used was tuned an octave below guitar. It has narrow spacing, and it was a blast to play. Sounded awesome, too.

[Seashore]

To ramble:

There are a few good intermediate 6-string options under a thousand, closer to 500 if you buy used. My first stop would be an Ibanez SR506 but those Peavey Grinds are still reasonable, and Schecter and LTD make some too. For that matter I wouldn't discount an Ibanez Gio with a proper setup for the student on a budget, although the 6-string I had for a little while sucked.

The difficulty (for me) with switching to a 6 string was that the ergonomics totally changed between 5 and 6. I can hold an SR 5-string pretty much the same way I would a 4-string or even a guitar. 6-strings involve more mechanical adjustments. Maybe not the same for everyone.

It's easy to find 5-string PJs, but the 6-strings I see around have soapbars. Mine is an SR1006 with proprietary Bartolini soapbars; I'd have to either get custom pickups or route the body if I wanted to change them out. Thankfully they sound good and are easy to sculpt with EQ, compression, and distortion, and they do all of the things I want. I know some people are after the exact P sound in their head, or some other specific bass sound, and maybe these wouldn't do that. I've never felt that way. Bass has always been the instrument I would carve out and fine-tune the most for a mix. Keeping in mind that this is all for metal-ish projects and mostly my own stuff, I'm not a studio engineer.

I remember wanting to like that Ibanez "crossover" bass, essentially their answer to the Bass VI, but in practice it felt like the worst of both worlds and I didn't gel with it at all. Maybe I'd feel different now. I see they have a new fanned fret version out. I am not tempted.

As far as tuning, I've gone all over the place. I prefer all my basses in all 4ths but I'll do a 5th on the bottom if I'm playing for a drop-tuned project. I've had the 6-string in all 4ths from C to C# for a few years for one band, but considering how much that's on the back burner I might change it out. It's easy to get custom gauge sets for whatever tuning now. Back in the day I sometimes enjoyed having my 5-string tuned high, and I would use a long-length guitar string threaded through a bass string ball end to stay put in the bridge.

[Inflames626]

Schecter makes a Hellcat, which is sort of a 30" scale baritone, but the one I used was tuned an octave below guitar. It has narrow spacing, and it was a blast to play. Sounded awesome, too.

I didn't know about that model, but this did have me thinking about in between stuff like a Fender Bass VI and where it belongs in a band/mix. Fender says it's a bass. But I would consider a short scale 30" bass something of an unacceptable compromise and would prefer it to be a longer scale guitar, especially if it already has guitar-ish single coil and P90 pickups. Fender can't have it both ways.

https://www.fender.com/articles/instruments/the-bass-vi-baritone-guitar-or-bass

I think maybe only Paul McCartney has played a short scale bass and I actually liked the sound.

[Inflames626]

We've covered a lot of ground here too, guys, and to think we haven't even scratched the surface on Gibson's rather unique take on the bass. I'm not so sure I'd be proud of being associated with the name "mudbucker," but they do have an interesting niche all their own.

[Inflames626]

To ramble:

There are a few good intermediate 6-string options under a thousand, closer to 500 if you buy used. My first stop would be an Ibanez SR506 but those Peavey Grinds are still reasonable, and Schecter and LTD make some too. For that matter I wouldn't discount an Ibanez Gio with a proper setup for the student on a budget, although the 6-string I had for a little while sucked.

The difficulty (for me) with switching to a 6 string was that the ergonomics totally changed between 5 and 6. I can hold an SR 5-string pretty much the same way I would a 4-string or even a guitar. 6-strings involve more mechanical adjustments. Maybe not the same for everyone.

It's easy to find 5-string PJs, but the 6-strings I see around have soapbars. Mine is an SR1006 with proprietary Bartolini soapbars; I'd have to either get custom pickups or route the body if I wanted to change them out. Thankfully they sound good and are easy to sculpt with EQ, compression, and distortion, and they do all of the things I want. I know some people are after the exact P sound in their head, or some other specific bass sound, and maybe these wouldn't do that. I've never felt that way. Bass has always been the instrument I would carve out and fine-tune the most for a mix. Keeping in mind that this is all for metal-ish projects and mostly my own stuff, I'm not a studio engineer.

I remember wanting to like that Ibanez "crossover" bass, essentially their answer to the Bass VI, but in practice it felt like the worst of both worlds and I didn't gel with it at all. Maybe I'd feel different now. I see they have a new fanned fret version out. I am not tempted.

As far as tuning, I've gone all over the place. I prefer all my basses in all 4ths but I'll do a 5th on the bottom if I'm playing for a drop-tuned project. I've had the 6-string in all 4ths from C to C# for a few years for one band, but considering how much that's on the back burner I might change it out. It's easy to get custom gauge sets for whatever tuning now. Back in the day I sometimes enjoyed having my 5-string tuned high, and I would use a long-length guitar string threaded through a bass string ball end to stay put in the bridge.

I didn't see any rambling, Seashore . Just good stuff.

No worries. I tend to ramble all over my own threads.

[Inflames626]

Also, Seashore , I would keep it stock just because anything with Barts tends to fetch more when sold used. That said, I have a love/hate relationship with them. For passive bass pickups, they are so bright and articulate almost to be offputting for my ears.

Their guitar pups don't seem to be talked about much. Likewise, I didn't know Schaller used to make pups. Every great now and then I see an Ampeg guitar amp. Just more stream of consciousness rambling niche things.

[Seashore]

Also, Seashore , I would keep it stock just because anything with Barts tends to fetch more when sold used. That said, I have a love/hate relationship with them. For passive bass pickups, they are so bright and articulate almost to be offputting for my ears.

Their guitar pups don't seem to be talked about much. Likewise, I didn't know Schaller used to make pups. Every great now and then I see an Ampeg guitar amp. Just more stream of consciousness rambling niche things.

Schaller pickups? Wow, I never heard of that. Cool. I have seen a couple Ampeg guitar heads in the wild at shows, pumping out some fantastic post punk and grind tones, but I've never played one.

I love that SR1006 too much to ever let it go, so I'm not worried about resale value, but I did wind up swapping the neck and bridge pickups with one another because the bridge was very bright and zingy and the neck pickup had this weird mid-midrange that didn't sound good in any proportion - I almost think the previous owner might have swapped them himself and I just put them back to normal, because the blending options sound much more like I'd expect now. The other thing I did with both of my Ibanez basses is, I took the preamps out and replaced them with simple dual volume setups. I shape the tone and boost it a bit with an EQ pedal first thing on the board. I hear you about "bright and articulate" - I like bright sounds but I wind up shaving the top and boosting the low end on both of these. The cool thing about them is, the sound is all there, so they take outboard EQ really well, with no weird cheap-sounding resonances.

Gibson basses... I love the feel and the look. I am a huge fan of Gibson guitars. They have some cool and unique sounds. None of it is what I want out of a bass. I want to love them but they're not what I need.

[Inflames626]

Schaller pickups? Wow, I never heard of that. Cool. I have seen a couple Ampeg guitar heads in the wild at shows, pumping out some fantastic post punk and grind tones, but I've never played one.

I love that SR1006 too much to ever let it go, so I'm not worried about resale value, but I did wind up swapping the neck and bridge pickups with one another because the bridge was very bright and zingy and the neck pickup had this weird mid-midrange that didn't sound good in any proportion - I almost think the previous owner might have swapped them himself and I just put them back to normal, because the blending options sound much more like I'd expect now. The other thing I did with both of my Ibanez basses is, I took the preamps out and replaced them with simple dual volume setups. I shape the tone and boost it a bit with an EQ pedal first thing on the board. I hear you about "bright and articulate" - I like bright sounds but I wind up shaving the top and boosting the low end on both of these. The cool thing about them is, the sound is all there, so they take outboard EQ really well, with no weird cheap-sounding resonances.

Gibson basses... I love the feel and the look. I am a huge fan of Gibson guitars. They have some cool and unique sounds. None of it is what I want out of a bass. I want to love them but they're not what I need.

I think Schaller pickups, Ampeg guitar amps, and the newly relaunched Sunn ((o)) (or however that logo is made) all exist in a parallel universe where 8 string guitars with Floyd Roses and practical high A strings exist.

I am happy there.

[El Dunco]

Schecter makes a Hellcat, which is sort of a 30" scale baritone, but the one I used was tuned an octave below guitar. It has narrow spacing, and it was a blast to play. Sounded awesome, too.

They had a 5 string baritone guitar (called the AX or something?) and I really wanted one but have never seen one come up again on the market. It was like the celloblaster but a different shape.