Steel fretless bass

[Inflames626]

Linus Klausenitzer (formerly of Obscura and playing in many other jazz/tech/prog death bands) has a 7 string bass made for him by Ibanez. And he does use the high 1st string in 5th position to keep from shifting around. He's always pushing the envelope. Here he talks about using a stainless steel fretboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCVHHvgC6q4

Dominic LaPointe formerly of Beyond Creation jamming the fretless here. I'm not sure who is "better" between him, Linus, and a great like Steve DiGiorgio, but I think Linus's playing fits the song better, whereas Dominic is pretty much doing a bass solo on top of the song.

https://youtu.be/rrwWBFp91U0

Tony Franklin talks about why he feels unlined fretless is superior here.

https://youtu.be/Xk6V4OM_vQA

As a guitarist who dabbles in bass, I really respect bassists who do fingerstyle and fretless in metal. The combo seems to have really regained popularity in the past 10 years or so among metal elitists. Only recently are guys like Tom Fountainhead Geldschlager pushing shred to fretless guitar. Guthrie Govan probably did it first, but Fountainhead's great playing can't be denied.

Fountainhead doing Paul Gilbert Racer X on fretless. His intonation and finger placement appear to be dead on as he has combined the fretted and fretless portions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BDgDoPwuy0

Now we'll see if someone merges True Temperament tuning with fanned frets on a fretless board for something truly mind blowing.

Anyway, hope this inspires you old school thrash cats who maybe haven't listened to new stuff in a while. There's still good stuff and good players out there. There's just so much material you have to take time to look.

[Blille]

Thanks for sharing this!

I love that folks have the passion to push the envelope with new stuff.

I’ve had the lined vs unlined convo a billion times. I sit squarely on the lined camp. With my lined fretless lol

I’m not sure how Tony thinks people with lined basses play. I don’t disagree with his point but it’s not like you ignore your ears when you play. The differences in position are minimal it’s about how you roll your finger. And I can convert my lined into unlined just by closing me eyes lol

After having played with fanned frets on guitar for a while I got a bass with fanned frets (nothing too dramatic, 33-35) and if you want to do fanning and fretless one would need to be super mindful about how it would fan. My preference would likely be to have the “frets†line up on the higher registry which is where you would usually do quick runs.

[ICTGoober]

And I can convert my lined into unlined just by closing me eyes

^^^ Salient point here. Pay attention, folks. ^^^

[Inflames626]

I've always wanted to try fretless bass but felt like I'd be laughed at...like I needed training wheels. I also thought perhaps the lined fretboard slightly changed the intonation/tone somehow by altering the fretboard. But I've never spent a ton of time dabbling on fretless bass. The skills to get good at it are similar to playing nylon string classical guitar, I find, and I just spend more time practicing picked bass because it's what I use more in my songs.

Also forgot Cynic's great bassist Sean Malone. With his death and Sean Reinhert's life has been really unkind to one of the most gifted rhythm sections in metal ever. Would have liked to see Sean and Steve DiGiorgio trade licks. I often confuse them on recordings.

Also I'm interested in Lightwave/Willcox stuff which produces a very clean but not sterile tone (I'm looking at you, Bartolini and Fishman). Hoping to snag a used Willcox semi hollow 5 string fretless but I doubt it will happen. Probably better just to get a traditional 6 string Jazz bass in fretless since I think fretless favors a Jazz bass's articulate sound despite flatwound strings being a little muddy in metal.

Sometimes it's easy to disappear in the mix with the flatwound/fretless/Jazz bass approach. It's the anti-clank bass.

[Mincer]

I think, especially in metal, it takes a talented engineer to mix fretless bass in the mix. It generally shines with a band that uses a lot of space. Not that it can't be done..it is rare.

Also, I met Sean Malone one time at an open jam thing in St Pete. He played Chapman Stick, and we jammed on some weird experimental stuff. He wasn't quite proficient yet on it (I assume he got better). I do remember him being more or less an ass to everyone there, though.

[Blille]

I've always wanted to try fretless bass but felt like I'd be laughed at...like I needed training wheels. I also thought perhaps the lined fretboard slightly changed the intonation/tone somehow by altering the fretboard. But I've never spent a ton of time dabbling on fretless bass. The skills to get good at it are similar to playing nylon string classical guitar, I find, and I just spend more time practicing picked bass because it's what I use more in my songs.

Also forgot Cynic's great bassist Sean Malone. With his death and Sean Reinhert's life has been really unkind to one of the most gifted rhythm sections in metal ever. Would have liked to see Sean and Steve DiGiorgio trade licks. I often confuse them on recordings.

Also I'm interested in Lightwave/Willcox stuff which produces a very clean but not sterile tone (I'm looking at you, Bartolini and Fishman). Hoping to snag a used Willcox semi hollow 5 string fretless but I doubt it will happen. Probably better just to get a traditional 6 string Jazz bass in fretless since I think fretless favors a Jazz bass's articulate sound despite flatwound strings being a little muddy in metal.

Sometimes it's easy to disappear in the mix with the flatwound/fretless/Jazz bass approach. It's the anti-clank bass.

I had never played fretless until maybe a year ago or so. I was surprised how quickly I picked it up to a non embarrassing level. I don’t play anything complex but I really enjoy it, it feels very freeing. I first focused on playing “normal” lines and that was plenty to enjoy it. If you can get a cheap one on Craigslist or a $100 glarry I think it’s worth giving it a try. You won’t be laughed at.

A lot of folks use roundwounds (or like me pressurewounds) with fretless. It helps to bring out the “mwah”. It’s not as bad on the fretboard as some folks think.

My favorite bass players overall are Gary Willis (since the 90s) and Richard Bona, I also grew listening to a lot of flamenco so I’ve heard a lot of fretless. I’m pretty excited to hear that it’s also finding a space in metal and hopefully I can encourage you to give it a chance

[Inflames626]

Blille , pressurewounds? I've heard of halfrounds. Never pressurewounds. And you anticipated my thinking roundwounds wouldn't be kind to ebony fretboards especially.

I usually fake a fretless tone by using a bass with small, narrow frets, turn the tone knob full dark, and turn on the bridge pickup only. I also considered a Jazz bass with the bridge pickup only to be "the active bass sound" before I had a better idea of what I was talking about. It just had that high fi sound, even on passive basses.

As far as giving fretless bass a chance, a bit about my sound. Meandering post here, but Blille has touched on some cool stuff.

Aside from the usual 80s thrash stuff via my older brother, I grew up listening to Chuck Schuldiner of Death in the 80s and 90s, so with the influence of later period Death, jazz-tinged metal isn't new to me.

As a GIT grad (2000, around the time Synyster Gates was there), I have a lot of respect for Dave Davidson of Revocation because he's a Berklee grad. I'm happy that I can understand most of his lessons even though his style is a bit too dissonant for me. I like using exotic modes and such to imply tonalities and chord progressions--not use actual altered dominants themselves. Too dissonant for metal. But I am trying to continue learning from Jens Larsen's jazz lessons on YouTube as well as QJamTracks and Truefire.

To return to Death's influence on me, Steffan Kummerer of Obscura loves Death enough to nearly be a tribute band in his style and the way he approaches songwriting, and I would say I am close to Kummerer in intended style and sound. Kummerer, Alexi Laiho, Dave Davidson, and I are all within a few years of each other in age and have many of the same influences, and I in turn am influenced by them even though I will never have their chops.

A good representation of my style is actually better shown by my best friend. He had a melodic death metal band, Poisonwood. He wrote the tunes and did the solos, recording, engineering, drum programming, etc., on this back around 2010. They used a fretless bass on this album. I helped them record it partly with Kazrog impulse responses. My friend was really able to pull out his inner Dave Murray here too on the solo tone, and his EVH influence comes out in the flanger in the intro. He's 10 years younger than I am but way ahead of me in terms of chops. These days he doesn't really even do metal anymore. He's in demand as an EVH cover band guitarist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njc4saRTQeM

My work as Devolve (cover by Peter Paul Rubens--Saturn Devouring His Son, 1636--I was a history major):

My cover of In Flames's Goliaths Disarm Their Davids (1997): https://soundcloud.com/devolve1980/g...m-their-davids I had the privilege of meeting Jesper Stromblad of IF at the Whisky while a student at GIT. IF was my favorite band for many years, particularly their first 5 records.

My cover of Judas Priest's Beyond the Realms of Death (1978): https://soundcloud.com/devolve1980/b...ealms-of-death Really proud of the drums on that with BFD 2.5 but not so much the bass mixing. I wanted this to sound like it was recorded digitally back in the 70s and I think I did it. Unfortunately I recorded it on a lawsuit P bass with a .1uf cap in it full dark and could never get the mud dialed out. Could never find a singer brave enough to try it.

Devolve originals written and recorded from 1996-2006 with now terrible productions by today's standards. Never could find a singer. Maiden, Slayer, and 90s NYC hardcore influences like Biohazard (via the clank bass and bounce riffs) should be obvious.

https://www.reverbnation.com/devolvear

The Bachian/Baroque/Swedish folk music/Gothenburg/Iron Maiden thing is way more my speed than jazz metal. I would be more inclined to use fretless bass during soft interludes similar to how Cynic used it in Veil of Maya.

Now a fretless acoustic bass--good luck not losing that in a mix.

These days I'm trying to study counterpoint, reharmonization, and jazz in a very formal way (I love theory), but lack of time and limiting myself to what I will actually use make it tough. It takes me about a year to do a 5 minute song of typical metal complexity because I do everything on it myself usually.

Mincer , sorry to hear Sean wasn't easy to work with other people. I've always felt those guys, Paul Masvidal included, knew how good they were and could be a little condescending about it. I think Paul was GIT class of 96, so about 5 years after his Death days. I didn't know he had attended there until after I had graduated.

Like most 18-19 years olds, I went there to "get fast, fast." I still don't practice enough for that.

Working on a cover of Metallica's Dyer's Eve currently. Drums have been done save velocity and quantizing, which are always time consuming.

16ths at 195 bpm. My right arm is already feeling it--especially on bass. Using it as an excuse to get my right hand up to scratch.

[Blille]

Blille , pressurewounds? I've heard of halfrounds. Never pressurewounds. And you anticipated my thinking roundwounds wouldn't be kind to ebony fretboards especially.

I usually fake a fretless tone by using a bass with small, narrow frets, turn the tone knob full dark, and turn on the bridge pickup only. I also considered a Jazz bass with the bridge pickup only to be "the active bass sound" before I had a better idea of what I was talking about. It just had that high fi sound, even on passive basses.

As far as giving fretless bass a chance, a bit about my sound. Meandering post here, but Blille has touched on some cool stuff.

Aside from the usual 80s thrash stuff via my older brother, I grew up listening to Chuck Schuldiner of Death in the 80s and 90s, so with the influence of later period Death, jazz-tinged metal isn't new to me.

As a GIT grad (2000, around the time Synyster Gates was there), I have a lot of respect for Dave Davidson of Revocation because he's a Berklee grad. I'm happy that I can understand most of his lessons even though his style is a bit too dissonant for me. I like using exotic modes and such to imply tonalities and chord progressions--not use actual altered dominants themselves. Too dissonant for metal. But I am trying to continue learning from Jens Larsen's jazz lessons on YouTube as well as QJamTracks and Truefire.

To return to Death's influence on me, Steffan Kummerer of Obscura loves Death enough to nearly be a tribute band in his style and the way he approaches songwriting, and I would say I am close to Kummerer in intended style and sound. Kummerer, Alexi Laiho, Dave Davidson, and I are all within a few years of each other in age and have many of the same influences, and I in turn am influenced by them even though I will never have their chops.

A good representation of my style is actually better shown by my best friend. He had a melodic death metal band, Poisonwood. He wrote the tunes and did the solos, recording, engineering, drum programming, etc., on this back around 2010. They used a fretless bass on this album. I helped them record it partly with Kazrog impulse responses. My friend was really able to pull out his inner Dave Murray here too on the solo tone, and his EVH influence comes out in the flanger in the intro. He's 10 years younger than I am but way ahead of me in terms of chops. These days he doesn't really even do metal anymore. He's in demand as an EVH cover band guitarist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njc4saRTQeM

My work as Devolve (cover by Peter Paul Rubens--Saturn Devouring His Son, 1636--I was a history major):

My cover of In Flames's Goliaths Disarm Their Davids (1997): https://soundcloud.com/devolve1980/g...m-their-davids I had the privilege of meeting Jesper Stromblad of IF at the Whisky while a student at GIT. IF was my favorite band for many years, particularly their first 5 records.

My cover of Judas Priest's Beyond the Realms of Death (1978): https://soundcloud.com/devolve1980/b...ealms-of-death Really proud of the drums on that with BFD 2.5 but not so much the bass mixing. I wanted this to sound like it was recorded digitally back in the 70s and I think I did it. Unfortunately I recorded it on a lawsuit P bass with a .1uf cap in it full dark and could never get the mud dialed out. Could never find a singer brave enough to try it.

Devolve originals written and recorded from 1996-2006 with now terrible productions by today's standards. Never could find a singer. Maiden, Slayer, and 90s NYC hardcore influences like Biohazard (via the clank bass and bounce riffs) should be obvious.

https://www.reverbnation.com/devolvear

The Bachian/Baroque/Swedish folk music/Gothenburg/Iron Maiden thing is way more my speed than jazz metal. I would be more inclined to use fretless bass during soft interludes similar to how Cynic used it in Veil of Maya.

Now a fretless acoustic bass--good luck not losing that in a mix.

These days I'm trying to study counterpoint, reharmonization, and jazz in a very formal way (I love theory), but lack of time and limiting myself to what I will actually use make it tough. It takes me about a year to do a 5 minute song of typical metal complexity because I do everything on it myself usually.

Mincer , sorry to hear Sean wasn't easy to work with other people. I've always felt those guys, Paul Masvidal included, knew how good they were and could be a little condescending about it. I think Paul was GIT class of 96, so about 5 years after his Death days. I didn't know he had attended there until after I had graduated.

Like most 18-19 years olds, I went there to "get fast, fast." I still don't practice enough for that.

Working on a cover of Metallica's Dyer's Eve currently. Drums have been done save velocity and quantizing, which are always time consuming.

16ths at 195 bpm. My right arm is already feeling it--especially on bass. Using it as an excuse to get my right hand up to scratch.

Thanks for sharing this!

Very cool. You’re far from my musical spectrum but I love that we can still talk gear and music

GHS Pressure wounds are not ground down into being flat, which I think really helps keep more of the tone. “Alloy 52™ is run through our computer controlled precision rollers in the winding process to create a semi-flat string with great articulation and a mellow tone with less finger noise. Ideal for fretless players that want to be easy on their fingerboards but not give up that roundwound "growl."“


I was at the MI at the end of 2000/2001 so we almost overlapped

[Inflames626]

Blille , thanks so much. I thought I had rambled on too long. I appreciate your interest.

So pressure wound must be an oval and halfround must be like a half circle with the flat part facing the fretboard? Maybe ovalwound would have been a more descriptive name.

Yeah like Mincer has said I think fretless bass in metal has a tendency to disappear and reappear in a mix, especially on open string notes against the guitar and kick.

I tried Elixirs when they first came out in 2000 but didn't like them. The tone compromise (I like a bright, unwound G string snap) wasn't worth the increase in string longevity to me.

I've been hesitant to try other types/alloys of strings ever since. Stainless was too bright. Nickel was too dull. So I just use good old middle of the round nickel wrapped roundwounds. Whatever is easier to find in shops (or, these days, online).

[Inflames626]

Hope you liked your time at MI, Blille . As I put it on a Facebook post for alumni:

"Week 1: here's some stuff.

Week 11: here's lots more stuff.

Two week break: digesting stuff."