Trem blocks

[wolf5150]

Guys, there seem to be 2 types of trem blocks.

Every guitar I own is quite deeply drilled so the string anchors way down deep.

A lot of newer guitars ( Suhr being one example ) seem to have switched to a shallow drilled block and I notice that the Callaham blocks are all shallow drilled, so the ball end is visible.

Is there a tonal difference between the 2 ??

 

[John_L]

Re: Trem blocks

Yes and a cost difference. The deeper ones transmit a bit more through the block. It used to be that shallow ones were more common but PRS went deep and others followed.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem blocks

interesting that you think the deep drilled block transmits more through the block. i'd have expected the opposite. I'm even more curious now because all the new trem blocks that suhr and the fender eric johnson strat use have shallow drilled ones .

 

[John_L]

Re: Trem blocks

If you are going for a 60's sound then shallow is the way to go. Johnson wants a '67 sound so that will get it you.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem blocks

John, why do you think a deep drilled block would transmit more of block ?

That's the bit that I don't get.

Surely, if the strings aren't in contact with the majority of the block, it would have less of a tonal impact., nor matter so much what the block is made from :scratchch

 

[John_L]

Re: Trem blocks

It's something to do with the energy coming to the end of the string. Which then cant escape so easily.
I've never put it to the test so it might not be the case but I've heard it a lot.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem blocks

I'd have expected more opinions so far.

I though this place was full of anoraks..lol :friday:

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Trem blocks

The main difference that I can tell, is that the shallow ball blocks have a bit more metal since they don't need to drill a large hole deep into the block. I've thought about getting a Killer Brass block which has shallow holes, but I just don't think it will make a $70 difference in my tone. It is nice that they make blocks for Wilkinsons with the staggered holes though.

 

[Brown Note]

Re: Trem blocks

Sometimes the string gets caught in the hole, hence the more shallow holes are better; you can dig the string out from it more easily. Other than that, there won't be any difference. The block will weigh rougly the same and the angle is so tight on the saddles that atleast I'm convinced no vibration is transferred to the block end of the string.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Trem blocks

It is very minimal at best. It's no where near as much vibration as is transferred to a pickup when it's mounted to the wood, for example. While a different debate all together, evidence is clearly in the favor of hard-mounting making a bigger difference than switching from steel to brass blocks, etc. Like I said, I'm not planning on spending a bunch of money on a block, when I don't see it as a significant enough mod.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem blocks

I've put Killer guitar's blocks on all my guitars.

Believe me the difference was clear and I'm even talking about my Tom Anderson which had a steel block.
Tom says he gets better tuning stability from a deep drilled block.

I'm just about to order another block and that's what started my brain ticking over !

I've e mailed the guys at Killer to see if they've compared the effects of deep or shallow drilling, I'll post any reply I get.

 

[rammer69]

Re: Trem blocks

I've put Killer guitar's blocks on all my guitars.

Believe me the difference was clear and I'm even talking about my Tom Anderson which had a steel block.
Tom says he gets better tuning stability from a deep drilled block.

I'm just about to order another block and that's what started my brain ticking over !

I've e mailed the guys at Killer to see if they've compared the effects of deep or shallow drilling, I'll post any reply I get.

link to killer's ??

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem blocks

http://www.killerguitarcomponents.com/

 

[rammer69]

Re: Trem blocks

http://www.killerguitarcomponents.com/

thanx wolf..

 

[LReese]

Re: Trem blocks

I've got one of the Gotoh 510s, a few Vintage RI trems (One on a Suhr, which was original to the guitar), Gotoh GE101 TS and a Gotoh 1099. Also had a KGC block on the guitar that had the 510 for a couple of weeks.

A lot of this is from memory (I was without the Suhr with the 510 for a few months to do the conversion). The prior bridge was a 1055. I really did not detect a lot of difference between the stock blocks (And a Gotoh 1099, too - all steel) and the KGC. That was on that particular trem - other trems might be a completely different story.

The Fenders are fine bridges, but many say you need to strip the powder coating off the block and underside of the bridge plate to get it to sound its best and its probably true. Ive stripped poly off the back of a neck and once and got a noticeable increase in resonance.

The Gotoh GE101TS replaced a Fender Vintage RI bridge on a Custom Shop Strat and I can detect some additional deepness to the tone - its subtle, but there. If I need to replace a bridge, right now that's my choice. As I recall its shallow drilled.

It does make sense that the deep drilled block stays in tune better - less string length behind the kink over the saddle. Might make bending slightly easier. YMMV

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem blocks

Here's Rick from Killer guitar's reply .

Mark,

We have not, as of yet, directly compared a guitar with a shallow drilled block and a deep drilled one. Our KGC-V (Vintage Style) and KGC-AVRI (Vintage Reissue) blocks are basically the same blocks besides the depth of the recess. The AVRI has the shallow recess whereas the V has a deeper one. This is something we will try out before long. My thoughts on this are that having the shallow recess would allow for slightly more vibration transfer (sustain). As far as tone goes, I can't imagine that the difference would be audible - even to someone with a really good ear. Overall, I'd say that the material is probably the most important part of the makeup of the block. That's why our blocks are so great - because of our special brass alloy. If I had to choose, I'd go with the shallow recess but I would say that it likely doesn't make a huge difference whether its deep or shallow drilled.

Hope this answers your question. Have a Happy Holiday season!

Best Wishes,

Rick Peek
Business Manager/VP
Killer Guitar Components
Gloucester, MA
rick@killerguitarcomponents.com
978-473-1323 "

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Trem blocks

That's a good reply that doesn't seem to be trying to sell you on some snake oil type of a product difference. It sounds like they are certainly committed to their brass blocks, which isn't a bad thing by any means.

I tend to look at Callaham when it comes to vintage products and specs. I've had strats with a bunch of different saddles, bridges and blocks. In my experience, Callaham makes the best sounding "vintage" stuff out there, and in general the best stuff for strat.

If there was a noticeable difference between shallow drilled and deep drilled blocks, I think he would have experimented with it, discussed it on his site and probably offered a product. If you like a quality steel block for a strat, Callaham is great. I don't know much about brass blocks....only had one and I made the mistake of putting it in AND changing the saddles to graphtec at the same time, so I can't really comment on the effect of each...just the cumulative effect; which did make it much, much warmer.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem blocks

I've found them to be a great company to deal with, since he 1st started making blocks.
The range is expanding nicely now.
He's agreed to make me a deep drilled one to compare with the shallow ones I've already got.
It'll satisfy my curiosity and give him an un biased opinion.

I won't get it for a few weeks though