I want to improve my ability to improvise

[Gitfidl]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

There is a computer program called Band in a Box. It can take a "midi" file and decipher the sheet music (a lead sheet). Then you can select and key you want to play it in. You can "Jazz up" or Jazz down" the chords. Sooon you have a version of a song that you like . Then you can click on the guitar window and a picture of a fretboard comes up. Then you click on "Ch Sol" and select an artists like Joe Pass and it will kind-of/sort-of simulate how Joe Pass would play this (improvision and all). But .. since it is a computer the notes in each chord may be 10 frets apart (hey lots of luck on that) ... so you need to have a "chord chart" that shows the notes in the chord (you can make on in Excel). Take the name of the chord (such as "C") and then in the next thee columns enter the triad notes for 1-3-5 (C E G) and then in the next several columns enter the notes for Maj7th, m7th, 6th, 9th, 11th 13th, inverteds, diminished, augmented. Then you can "step" though the song one chord at a time and write down the chords. In time you get to where you can do it kind of quickly (like anything) and you can begin to get a smooth approach on playing some improvisions ... bear in mind thought that the above comments like "practice-practice-practice" and "listen to the radio" are all still operable because there is not ONE THING that work AND .. we never really stop developing. Others may say "Oh that was great" and you are thinking "yeah, but it was not what I was trying to do" (It will never be like Joe Pass or Herb Ellis). BUT you will be working in that direction. Also I was listening to the Allman Bros with Statesboro Blues .. incredible .. I have no idea how they create that "sound" -- you will not do it in your kitchen (for sure). I know what chords they are using (and all of that) but it isn't even close when I do it. But that's where it is ..

[Jakek5150]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

Tabs have helped my ear training a ton . . . half of the online ones that I check out don't sound right. Fixing them helps your ear quite a bit.

I must say that I agree with this. I have used tabs quite a bit to learn songs, mainly when I was just starting to play or if there's something really strange in somebody's playing (Sometimes I have no idea what the hell chords/notes George Lynch is playing). Over time I started figuring out "oh, ok, so this chord sounds like this" and so on, and it's helped me recognize chords and licks when I hear them and I can get a good idea to play it by ear, or at least find a good starting point.

I think the problem lies in that too many people of my generation rely SO heavily on tabs and don't think or care to develop their ears.



I have been working really hard on mastering scales, and I've been doing really good playing my own songs and improvising the solos with these new scales.
I really appreciate all of the advice you guys have given. Thanks

[blueman335]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

unless the tabs are approved and official, I've found many of them to be sketchy and just plain wrong, because the folks who write them have lousy ears.

Most online tab is submitted by users of varying skill levels, and the quality isn't consistent, but some is very good. There's a number of tab books out these days for entire albums, including some of the great ones (like Disraeli Gears, Zep 1 thru 6, Electric Lady Land, Machine Head, etc). Learning the intro to TYA's 'I'm Going Home' is a heck of a lot easier with tab, let me tell you. Man, I wish they had this stuff when I was a teenager. Learn some songs and riffs from these books, and you have a platform to build on for your own solos.

[blueman335]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

I think the problem lies in that too many people of my generation rely SO heavily on tabs and don't think or care to develop their ears.

+1. Tab is best used to fill the holes in things you want to know. It can be a blessing in that regard. But it's not enough by itself. I prefer to figure out things by playing along with CD's, but I don't always have the time to do that. Sometimes I figure things out playing by myself in a quiet room; once I have a song or riff stuck in my head I can sound out the right notes.

[JordanM82]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

I agree with studying some scales and theory, but I think ear training will really get your farther in the improvisation realm than knowing a bunch of scales. If you can't "hear" what's going on and react accordingly, you'll have a lot of trouble. In the age of tablature-dependency, ear-training is really losing it's foothold in music, which is why it's so cookie-cutter and lacks improvisation. So I think it's good to balance the two concepts. Learn scales, learn some theory, but also put the tabs down and play the stuff by ear as best you can. That's how all the greats did it.

Oh good point, I can't believe I forgot to mention ear training. Man that is so essential, a great way I have always like to do this is to use my ear to play along with the vocal parts of different blues musicians; in fact I was just doing this to Freddy Kings "Same Old Blues" a great track to practice this idea with.

[Chickenwings]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

You guys are talking about using tabs to figure out other peoples songs and riffs. Isnt this thread about learming to improvise?

The greatest improvisers play music first, their instrument second.
Many guitarists are stuck in a straight jacket where they are still thinking about fingers and frets - tab is a reflection of this - rather than melody and harmony.

Harmony, rhythm and melody are not concepts limited to one instrument - they are the building blocks of music. Its the same system saxophone or kepyboard players use to improvise. Its the same system Django Reinhard and Stefan Grapelli used as well as Miles Davis or CHarlie Parker . Why do you people think that guitars have 12 frets? Do you really think concepts like pitch bending are solely limited to guitar and blues?. Did you guys know that js BAch was a monster improviser?
Music is a language that we can all speak to various degrees with various levels of fluency. Music, just like any language has structure and grammar - in the music we all use (and that encompasses ecerything from Baroque to Metal, Blues to Bluegrass) there are certain structures too....i just dont get why people would deliberately avoid learning them. I had a new student tell me not long ago "You know i have been playing for 30 years, and i learned heaps in the first 6 months. Then i think i must have stopped!"
Its true....if you are really passionate about music there is no reason not to learn as much as you can. There is also no reason why you cant continue to learn as you grow older -nothing is set in stone.

Ear training too is essential - but you also gotta realize that the greatest ears in the world cant play the guitar for you, so you have to pair it with pracice routines that will allow you the greastest flexibility for youe fingers, so you muscle memory doesnt trap you into playing the same old riffs. That way you will have a more direct route between your ears and your fingers. That way, the player is more truly on the path to freedom of musical expression.

ps.guitfdls post about band in a box is really good. Its a very useful tool for the developing improviser. I dont use the guitar section of it, but its a very powerful program that not only lets you set up practice routines, or play the changes of various songs at various speeds - but it also has a great ear training section. Its also brilliant for knocking together charts for other musos if you write a new song, or to use it to reharmonize existing songs. Worth every penny.

[Chickenwings]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

All im saying is that we need to keep our minds open when it comes to improving our playing and our improvisation. A lot can be learned from many different approaches...but deliberately avoiding knowledge that we all know is out there (im talking conventional harmony and reading etc) is ultimately self-limiting.
Think about it....a painter who understands the concept of perspective does not have to paint using that technique all the time....think about picasso...he knew all that stuff, mastered it....and then took his art to another level...same goes with Salvador Dali...same goes for musicians.
In the end its all about trying to attain freedom of expression. Its about transcending your limitations. Its about always learning, and understanding that theres always more to learn.
Even the great Jimi Hendrix understood that theres always more to learn: "Kenny Burrell that's the sound I'm looking for." ..- Jimi Hendrix
and im sure Kenny is still looking for new approaches too.

[blueman335]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

You guys are talking about using tabs to figure out other peoples songs and riffs. Isnt this thread about learming to improvise?

Yes, but you have to have something to build on. Nobody reinvents the wheel. Probably everything that's been played has been played by other musicians at some time in the past. Whether you remember where you got a riff or not, it's highly unlikely no one else has never played it before. Every day, millions of musicians are playing solos all over the world. All that's really being done is collecting random pieces & reassembling them differently. I'm sure you've learned other player's riffs and have incorporated them into your style and solos.

[Chickenwings]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

Yes i have used both standrd notation and tab to learn some pieces of music. And its very true about musicians reassembling various snippets of music whether consciously or unconsciously. Its also very true that people do not reinvent the wheel.
Music is a language. When people speak or write in the english language, French, Hindi or whatever, they are using the building blocks of their language. Words are very rarely invented on the spot. So, in our language we use 26 letters and an enormous amount of words. Its kinda the same in music, but theres only 12 notes in western music. Each musical phrase is something like a phrase in any language. Music is just a little more abstract because it does not actually contain words, but in every other respect music is identical to any language. IN any language, people generally do not invent new words on the spot, but they do use words. Sometimes, they may talk about the same subjects whether its football or politics etc. However, when people are speaking, while the words are not new, their particular way of expressing themselves and their choice of words is unique (hopefully). Some people may even quote other people in the course of their conversations - thats cool, its all part of the give and take of any conversation, and it can make things more interesting. Theres no point in reinventing the language...just try to be original and interesting within its framework so people can understand you.
Thing is, in music the difference between improvising and recital is like this:
A recital (classical guitar piece for example) is parallell with reciting poetry. You can recite the poem many ways depending on how your voice sounds, the pace at which you speak, the length of your pauses, the pitch of your voice etc etc etc.
Improvisation is more like a living conversation, and just like any conversation, some people are more interesting comnversationalists than others. usually this is due to a combination of their life experiences, sense of humor or knowledge in a particular field. \
Obviously, some musical performances often contain a combination of recital and improvisation. BOth approaches are valid forms of expression in music, but the originator of this thread wanted to improve his improvisation....and a deeper understanding of the language of music can only be a good thing in thise case.

[IanBallard]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

Honestly, I have a helluva time reading tab anyway. It's so prodding and slow. I'd rather hack through an approximation by ear, but that's just me.

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

I trust my ear a whole lot more than I trust tab....

Have'nt really looked at any of that stuff in 20 years....

As far as improv goes, the style I like best is neoclassical/shred. Yngwie, Macalpine, (George) Bellas, Vai ...they're great improvisers. Everyone talks about Blues & Jazz but there is plenty of improvisation that goes on in metal/shred/instrumental rock/fusion etc...which is generally overlooked, even ridiculed pretty often and these players are every bit as talented as anyone else out there...




Look at this guy....no one's even heard of him but he's incredible...

[MetalManiac]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

I want to improvise my ability to improve.

[IanBallard]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

I trust my ear a whole lot more than I trust tab....

Have'nt really looked at any of that stuff in 20 years....

As far as improv goes, the style I like best is neoclassical/shred. Yngwie, Macalpine, (George) Bellas, Vai ...they're great improvisers. Everyone talks about Blues & Jazz but there is plenty of improvisation that goes on in metal/shred/instrumental rock/fusion etc...which is generally overlooked, even ridiculed pretty often and these players are every bit as talented as anyone else out there...




Look at this guy....no one's even heard of him but he's incredible...

Gawd Almighty! He's friggen kickass!!! He's probably a guitar teacher, which is why you've never heard of him.

[DustyCat]

Re: I want to improve my ability to improvise

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=p0nMU82cWM8