Cedar or Spruce?

[bornagainplayer]

I'm looking to buy an acoustic guitar and am interested in input on cedar vs. spruce tops. I live far from the nearest music store and have not been able to play one with a cedar top to see for myself. I have had a few acoustics with solid spruce tops before but need to know how different the sound is with cedar. I've done some looking online for info and it sounds like cedar might have a brighter sound with higher mids than spruce. Does that sound right? I play mostly pop and classic rock when I play acoustic. Rhythm and some picking only - no solos.

I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance.

[MetalManiac]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

Sitka Spruce for Acoustics, and Spanish Cedar for Clasicals.

[Dr.J4ckal]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

From what I've read, cedar seems to sound warmer, fuller and gets better as they age, spruce is bright with good clarity and attack.

[dr. ad]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

i have a cedar topped steel-string acoustic and love it
i definitely wouldn't call it bright though. "warm" and "middy" yes, but not bright.

[DarkMatter]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

Spanish cedar is not the best for a top. Western red cedar can be great for either nylon or steel string. Its usually warm and deep toned yet rich in undertones and with lots of volume potential. Now, good spruce, the primary choice for both types, most of the time will take years to develop its true beauty. It generally takes on a less bassy, clearer sound with better note separation. They don't sound bad when they're new but often get better.

[MetalManiac]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

Spanish cedar is not the best for a top. Western red cedar can be great for either nylon or steel string. Its usually warm and deep toned yet rich in undertones and with lots of volume potential. Now, good spruce, the primary choice for both types, most of the time will take years to develop its true beauty. It generally takes on a less bassy, clearer sound with better note separation. They don't sound bad when they're new but often get better.

I thought the best old classical formn the master callical luthiers of Spain were made with a very rare old growth spanish cedar?They wre almost akin to the rare violinwood of Europe?

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

^^ The wood called Spanish Cedar is similar to mahogany, used by some electric makers like Doug Kauer. It's quite lightweight, resonant, and carves easily.

The 'best old classicals from Spain' were always made using spruce tops. The use of cedar as a soundboard material was pioneered by José Ramírez III in the 1970s.

Cedar is a softer wood than spruce. For acoustic guitar tops, it has a warmer and darker tone, with a sweet top end. Unlike spruce, it doesn't require much (if any) playing in to get the guitar to open up. It also yields more volume - one reason it's used in modern lattice braced classical guitars like Smallman.

As DarkMatter says, spruce in general is brighter sounding and has better note separation, as has been mentioned; depending on the piece, it requires time for it to achieve tonal maturity. From experience, spruce topped Maton acoustics are quite 'stiff' sounding when new, and require working in; I played a Taylor once that was similar. It also depends on the skill of the maker too and the quality of the wood.

There's also redwood, which sounds similar to cedar. I played a small bodied redwood/mahogany acoustic once (Denholm - a luthier based in Melbourne) and it had a really interesting tone - kind of warm and dry at the same time, liked it quite a bit.

Ultimately, you have to play the guitars themselves and see what you like.

[jalguitarman]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

Sitka Spruce for Acoustics, and Spanish Cedar for Clasicals.

I would have thought this too but, there are some very high-end classicals that that have spruce tops. I would like to try a cedar topped steel string acoustic at some point, just to hear how they sound in comparison to spruce.

[jalguitarman]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

^^ The wood called Spanish Cedar is similar to mahogany, used by some electric makers like Doug Kauer. It's quite lightweight, resonant, and carves easily.

The 'best old classicals from Spain' were always made using spruce tops. The use of cedar as a soundboard material was pioneered by José Ramírez III in the 1970s.

Cedar is a softer wood than spruce. For acoustic guitar tops, it has a warmer and darker tone, with a sweet top end. Unlike spruce, it doesn't require much (if any) playing in to get the guitar to open up. It also yields more volume - one reason it's used in modern lattice braced classical guitars like Smallman.

As DarkMatter says, spruce in general is brighter sounding and has better note separation, as has been mentioned; depending on the piece, it requires time for it to achieve tonal maturity. From experience, spruce topped Maton acoustics are quite 'stiff' sounding when new, and require working in; I played a Taylor once that was similar. It also depends on the skill of the maker too and the quality of the wood.

There's also redwood, which sounds similar to cedar. I played a small bodied redwood/mahogany acoustic once (Denholm - a luthier based in Melbourne) and it had a really interesting tone - kind of warm and dry at the same time, liked it quite a bit.

Ultimately, you have to play the guitars themselves and see what you like.

I know I sure like spruce for classical guitars over cedar. I only found one cedar topped classical that sounded pleasing to my ears and I still liked the sound of the spruce better.

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

I thought the best old classical formn the master callical luthiers of Spain were made with a very rare old growth spanish cedar?They wre almost akin to the rare violinwood of Europe?

Stradivarius used maple and spruce for his violins... So did Guarnieri and Vuillame

[Gypsyblue]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

Cedar has the advantage of sounding more like an old and well broken in guitar, even when new. But Spruce is ultimately a better wood and lasts longer - like hundreds of years!

I'd go for Sitka or Englemann Spruce. I'm partial to Englemann. Adirondack Spruce might be the ultimate but you won't find that on anything except 80 year old Martins and very expensive new acoustics.

[Bludave]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

Cedar s a great tone wood in the right applications. How it is mixed with other woods will also have an effect of its tone. Cedar works very well with Rosewood in a smaller body guitar & not as well with maple(it sounds too bright). The body size will also have a large effect on its tone as well. The negative to cedar is it is a soft wood and is more likely going to dent & scratch really easy. It should also not be used with a flatpick as you will wear a hole through the top(if you play hard). Its is an excellent choice if you fingerpick. Small body rosewood with a cedar top can be a wonderful fingerpickers guitars. The other concern is string tension. I would not recommend using a heavy string ion this type of guitar as the bridge could lift off the top. The added string tension of 13's could be devastating to a cedar top. Part of the reason why I never bought a cedar topped guitar. I use 13's on all my acoustics tuned to pitch so I was always afraid of ripping the bridge off.

If you are a flatpicker go with Sitca or Englemen Spruce. It is a lot more durable & stronger then Cedar. If you are a soft fingerpicker; using a small body guitar you will really enjoy the warmth of the tone of Cedar but Cedar top guitars can be problematic as to their lack of strength and the softness of the wood, but this is also what makes the wood so attractive for fingerpicking, its very responsive & has a nice warm tone to it.

[Chickenwings]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

I thought the best old classical formn the master callical luthiers of Spain were made with a very rare old growth spanish cedar?They wre almost akin to the rare violinwood of Europe?

The common woods for nylon guitar tops are either spruce or cedar. Spruce ages better and holds its shape longer. Cedar has a darker tone. Spruce offers better clarity and separation. Both generally match with a nice rosewood back and sides. With the popularity of lattice bracing, cedar is becoming more popular, because it smooths out the agressive presence of lattice. Classical guitars are not like violins and do not continue to get better decade after decade as they warp and lose the elasticity in the wood, so for longevity spruce with a fan bracing is the most robust choice.

[Stratman]

Re: Cedar or Spruce?

Sitka Spruce for Acoustics, and Spanish Cedar for Classical.

Nail it on this one!